Sexist football chants

[TheMonkeyMummy]

DH and I have fallen out. He is lovely caring, big soft Geordie, and a big football fan. He took two DS 1&2 to watch the match today and they all had a great time.

An hour ago, he said to me ‘the English and Swedish fans are having a bit of banter. The English are shouting ‘You’re shit but at least your wives are fit.’ And the Swedes are replying ‘Go home to your ugly wives.’

I said ‘that’s quite offensive and rather sexist.’
He said ‘of course it’s sexist. It’s football.’

And so I replied ‘ok, so sexism is ok then. as long as it's funny? I guess there's a similarity between casual sexism and casual racism. As long as it’s a ‘joke’ and serves your agenda, then it’s ok.’ (DH abhors casual racism so I knew this would make him bristle.)

And it has just gone downhill from there. I have told him that I am disappointed in his reaction to my initial comment and I think he needs to reflect upon these chants/comments. He thinks I am being ridiculous as it's all just a bit of fun.

FWIW, I know it's an old chant.

Aibu to be upset that this is permitted behaviour?

It's a sexist and unimaginative chant that's all too common.

We're seeing the back of overt racism, at last, in football but sexism is very much alive and kicking. I've been going to football since the 80s and things have changed but only last season fans of my team were chanting 'Go and do the housework' to the female referee's assistant.

I hate the way that people excuse it with the word 'banter'. It isn't, it's sexism and it isn't funny.

Might also be worth me tioning that male beauty is just as admired Ongar the people I know. My husband gets just as many comments about his looks as I do but there aren't many in all honesty.

Always worth noting how angry people get when sexism is called out. I guess why that's why it's still so acceptable

I'm not angry at all, just can't get worked up by it.

I feel sorry for your husband having to deal with you.

@Racecardriver wow, well I am genuinely astonished that you have never felt that.
Sexism, for me, isn't about beauty per say, (although attractiveness of both males and females is a value held in high regard in our society) but more of a difference in the concept of males and females as a whole. Where I live, I deal with this difference in attitude daily and it has nothing to do with my boob size. But thanks for giving me something to consider.

@chilly32045 , thanks for thé personal derogatory comment.
Can I ask, why is that?

@TornFromTheInside I agree. I guess we can only tackle it one step at a time. I won't accept it for me and I definitely will not allow my DS's and DD to think it is an acceptable way to behave. Hopefully they will be capable of having a sense of behaviour above and beyond this shite.

@TheCunkOfPhilomena that's awful!

@themonkeymummy why? Unless you have failed to notice that men are also treated differently to one another according to how attractive they are. Thankfully I have lived my life in an environment where no one takes liberties because of sex (for a variety of reasons including being raised amongst families of post soviet heritage which are quite egalitarian where these things are concerned, being educated in so gle sex schools and, in adulthood, socialising with well mannered people who know better). The ways in which I have benefitted from my appearance (admittedly they have been very limited) are equal to the way that my male counterparts have benefitted (that is to say that there is a natural bias for attractive people in social situations, marriage etc). Perhaps it us because we are people who have much more to offer than mere looks? And be a use we a surrounded by people who place little value on physical appearances? What kind of life have you lead that people have seen fit to judge you on the basis of looks?

Gronky Sorry to be a pedant but it was Brighton fans singing it to Palace fans after the London riots in 2011 when some parts of Croydon (Palace's "home town") were destroyed by fire. And they're right. They should have burnt more

@Racecardriver, again, my experiences are not based on my looks but on my gender. The focus isn't on attractiveness but the opportunities afforded to you because of your gender. Not sure why you asked 'why?', as I wasn't questioning you further, I thanked you for your comments and giving me something to think about?

Anyway, I will say that I do agree with you re: cultural aspects. I currently live in a country where society functions based on the mother being at home. It's like being in the 1950's with regards to how men and women are treated, and how the men are the ones who are addressed when someone is faced with a couple etc, if wives (not even mothers, just women) go to work then they are taxed at a higher rate than their husbands. Some companies have a policy where their wives cannot work at all. Women were only given the vote in 1971 and still don't have rights to equal pensions etc.

That said, as expats, we are surrounded by highly skilled, educated and interesting individuals and we do not judge each other according to our looks. So I am agreeing with you.

But I am still astounded that you have never felt the effects of sexism at any point in your life. I hope that in the not too distant future your experience will not be in the minority!

@themonkeymummy that sounds very unpleasant, hopefully indeed. Although I do think it is also personal on a certain level. I generally have experienced almost no unpleasantness of any kind in my life. Maybe it is because I have a resting bitch face? (and a tongue to match). The only people I can think of in my life who have acted badly towards me have been my mother and my MIL and that was not because of my sex. Perhaps if I was meeker (or at least less scarry) I would be treated differently

Not all victims of sexism know they are victims of it.
Positive or negative.

@TornFromTheInside I fully agree. Social conditioning (this thread is a good example of it and the 'banter' excuse) is massive.

@ParkheadParadise

Don't think you're going to reach 10

Let's Go!

Well, the person I called out for sexism on another board said "quite right, sorry, and sorry to all females". I'll let him off saying 'females' but certainly an unexpected response!

@VanGoghsDog 😍

I just thought the chant was playing off the stereotype that's extremely accurate that Sweden is full of aesthetically pleasing people. Not particularly imaginative but most football chants aren't.

There is plenty of mutual respect between English and Swedish fans, hence the banter.
Was the trashing of an Ikea store by England fans part of this respectful banter?

Calling people fit isn't sexist.

In my opinion the freakish mental gymnastics people have to do to impute sexism into such a thing more than speak for themselves.

It's such an obviously jovial play on national stereotypes, in an age where football fans aren't even all men, anyway, that this seems like a frivolous complaint.

It is when it's 'your wives' - it's a sweeping generalisation about Swedish women.
They don't mention intelligence, they don't talk about education levels, they talk about looks. Female looks.
They are reducing Swedish women to objects of desire. It's sexism.

If I say Essex women are unintelligent and promiscuous, that would be sexist too. Just because it's seen as a positive to be 'fit' doesn't make it any less sexist.

Calling people fit isn't sexist. In my opinion the freakish mental gymnastics people have to do to impute sexism into such a thing more than speak for themselves.

This

Calling people fit isn't sexist. In my opinion the freakish mental gymnastics people have to do to impute sexism into such a thing more than speak for themselves.

Erm... ok. That's only one side of the argument, the other side says the other teams women aren't fit.

Sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women

Stereotypical an entire population of women as 'fit' is precisely this.
It's no less prejudice than saying blondes are stupid.
Saying blonde women are stupid is sexist and prejudice again blondes.

The inability to see that is staggering.

You're not seeing it because it's considered funny and complimentary (by some), but the fact remains, it's a stereotype and it's sexist. Were it less funny and unflattering, I do not think you'd have the same opinion.

@UneMoonit @RainbowsAndSmiles
It's not mental gymnastics. It's actually pretty straightforward.
Just as you are perplexed how people can be bothered by this, I am also failing to understand how you just don't get it?

Oh well. It takes all sorts.