To ask this man if this child is his daughter?

[wildsummerdreams]

I just saw a man carrying a child (she 3-4) against her will. She was throwing a tantrum and trying to free herself. It would seem like a normal scene if you have kids, but I could not help but think the worst, so I followed them and ask him if he was her dad. He stopped (good sign) looked at me and when he realised what I was thinking, told me to not be ridiculous. I asked the child directly if that was her dad, but she kept on crying. Then they wen off and he continue to carry her against her will. I watched them for a bit and took a picture of them just in case. Please tell me I'm not a total nutter and what would you have done or what to do if something like this happens.

The girl didn't have any shoes on and they were crossing Kentish Town high street.

Sarah's brother was an eye witness. Not certain he witnessed the actual abduction but he saw Roy Whiting.

Mormontsraven Torn is also a man and is presumably speaking from experience. It's very sad, but that's what he feels he has to do.

Absolutely Sheep... a little engagement to explain you're having a nightmare, take the car reg etc. Enough to allay any fears. How often does this happen to any typical parent? Half a dozen times? It's no hardship.

There might be some parents with children who have unusual behaviours and they might face this issue more often, but even so, if someone's genuinely looking out for the welfare of a child what's the problem?

The world might be a better place if people actually started questioning a bit more.

30 years ago a man wouldn't think twice about picking up a crying child in a park.
Now, they'd be wary.
Society has changed, and men's behaviour has too.
I would imagine a typical (innocent) Catholic priest is now acutely aware of his behaviour... and we all know why. He would have to be stupid to not be aware, and to adapt accordingly. This is how we change behaviour as a consequence of other mens actions.

Children aren't always taken to be murdered either.
The most common situation is estranged parents where both men AND women attempt to take a child. Sometimes as innocuous as collecting from school without prior agreement, or using a grandparent as proxy to get access to their kids.
Sometimes, an abduction is a little more forceful in an attempt to get them out of the country (be estranged parent)
Then there is the extremely rare case of something more horrific.

Snatches happen more often than people think, they just don't make the headlines. They are not the sole domain of the working classes either. There are socio-economic reasons why some types of abduction are more prevalent in some cultures and classes, but it not some inherent nature of 'chavs'.

ThePricklySheep neighbors saw my tenant leave the house with a washing machine and rolled carpets - no one said anything!

Mormontsraven Wed 11-Jul-18 11:55:20 - I must be an under educated chav with 2 degrees and 25 years in childcare because I would ask you if everything is alright and gage your reaction take note of what you are doing and where you are going just in case and if I was worried id be calling the police after taking a photo we all have a duty of care to children in light of things that have happened to some in the past. I think your reaction and defensive nature is more about having your child out of bed upset and tiered at that time of night and trying to make yourself feel a righteous parent for that in case your judged and less about possible abduction and child endangerment. You took your child out no big deal someone challenged you to make sure nothing else was wrong let it go and stop being so obnoxious and bigoted.

Mormontsraven, there is no need for that dismissive tone. It's uncalled for.
Why are you so quick to attribute negative values with white people?
You seem to be changing the goalposts of your argument each time, and yet the fundamental issue at hand is about the legitimacy of someone asking a man if he is the parent of a child when a specific situation seems ambiguous and a possible threat to a child.

You've turned it into a personal issue when it never was, and you've been highly arrogant and presumptive that this is a working class issue.

Now it's a white issue.

Seriously, that's no way to debate.

Mormontsraven,

Why are you so uptight?

these people

We all have a duty to safeguard children. What you did was brave and I hope I would have had the nerve to do the same thing if I'd seen this. So 999 times out of 1000 it's innocent, but what about the 1 other time.

Furthermore, if someone was carrying my DC away I hope someone would question the person, take a photo and report it.

Well done OP

I dont like black people. These people are nasty. I dont like Irish people, they are all the same.

There you go. Is that acceptable?

petrolpump28: If you don't like black people or Irish people that is your perogative. Not liking a group of people is thankfully not yet a crime.

I wonder about posters here who are fine with making distinctions on the basis of sex/gender and relative propensity, i.e. a man is more likely to abduct/abuse a child than a woman, but can't acknowledge others making distinctions on the basis of ethnic identity (and white English is a statistical category) and income group (also a statistical category as per ONS) and relative propensity. Do they realise how stupidly inconsistent they are being?

Mormontsraven, there is a difference between a set of socioeconomic circumstances by a gang related crime or benefit fraud which are often gone if you take that person out of those circumstances and behaviours that are inherently gender biased such as a propensity for violence or paedophilia.. there are larger numbers of white working class people which gives rise to greater numbers of abduction instances. there are still plenty of abduction cases in middle class families.

I can't help but think you have a general disdain for what you referred to as white chavs.

There is no evidence that propensity for violence or paedophilia is "inherently gender biased". The relative propensity may be purely sociological conditioning.

It's fascinating how people believe that the lower propensity of women to earn high incomes is the result of gender bias against women but the higher propensity of men to commit certain crimes is because of something inherent to the nature of men. Again, do people not realise how stupidly inconsistent they are being?

You also need to remember that in an ambiguous and Sutton situation it is what's more difficult to ascertain the socioeconomic background of somebody than it is to identify their gender. the most immediate and obvious threat comes from their behaviour and then their gender.

Sol a woman sees a man carrying a screaming child. it is not unreasonable for her to question why that child might be screaming and what the motive of the man is. It's also not beyond the wit of man to understand why a woman or a man may be concerned and seek further clarification about the situation. This event is a relatively rare event in the grand scheme of things which in part is why it draws attention. Are you really suggesting that this issue is only an issue for white chavs and bystanders should simply stand aside and not question this?
Non white children with non white parents also experience abduction do they not count?

Crying child different from screaming child.

Asian and European families have fathers on the scene so don't have the same reaction to man alone with child that "fatherless" white chav families do.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that males are inherently predatory. I do not exclude conditioning as that does indeed occur but to try and gloss over inherently gender-biased traits is disingenuous.

so Mormontsraven let me get this straight you are saying the OP intervened because of colour and social class?

That's my family you're generalising about Mormontsraven. White, English lower income. Thank you so much.

And I must tell DD that she's disproportionately contributing to classroom disruption. That's so funny.

@PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks

I don't think she's trying to say all white lower class families are like that, I think she's trying to say that evidence suggests issues like disruption and low achievement are more likely to affect lower class white families.

While that's true enough I think - I might be mistaken but I do remember reading reports on it - I don't see how it's at all relevant to this thread.

The ONS say that fatherless families are the norm among white English lower income groups In that demographic 65%+ of children aren't living with both parents. That's not my view - that's the reality.

Women from this demographic aren't used to seeing fathers with their children and see men with children as potential abducters in a way that those from non-dysfunctional groups would never do. Such women also don't respect men as fathers and would never speak to a woman they way they spoke to me.