To ask this man if this child is his daughter?

[wildsummerdreams]

I just saw a man carrying a child (she 3-4) against her will. She was throwing a tantrum and trying to free herself. It would seem like a normal scene if you have kids, but I could not help but think the worst, so I followed them and ask him if he was her dad. He stopped (good sign) looked at me and when he realised what I was thinking, told me to not be ridiculous. I asked the child directly if that was her dad, but she kept on crying. Then they wen off and he continue to carry her against her will. I watched them for a bit and took a picture of them just in case. Please tell me I'm not a total nutter and what would you have done or what to do if something like this happens.

The girl didn't have any shoes on and they were crossing Kentish Town high street.

I know. Yet another working class stereotype.

Mormontsraven- I know many parents from both the lower and middle income groups in the uk, and I think one thing they would holeheartedly agree on is this : you should not be walking the streets with a four year old at allmost midnight. Do this and people are going to speculate and pass all kinds of judgement, your dc should have been tucked in bed at this time.

Yep mormontsraven you were out at almost midnight with a crying child. 2 women you have judged to be 'chavs' were worried about your daughter. (And it's interesting to see that 'they don't work but your wife is a SAHM.) Fwiw I would've judged you-not them.

mormont

Surely children who come from homes where the parents don't live together would be more likely to be out alone with their dad on his access days?

it's more unusual to see working class fathers with their children
Oh yea why’s that then?working classes are feckless?absent?in jail?drunk?
And of course middle class dads are so attentive,the top of their game men whom everyone on mn seems to cohabit with

As a parent, I thank you OP.

My eldest disappeared in a shop. She was 4.
My twat ex-H was with her. She said she wanted Mummy. The shop was very large, and very busy.

DD has no idea where I was. He let her go off to find me.
I found HIM first. He asked where DD was, and I was frantic. All staff members were informed, doors locked. Nobody could find her.
I ran out to the car park in desperation. No DD.
I ran back into the shop, and she had been found by a staff member. The little horror had intentionally hidden in a rack of jeans, and was enjoying the show.
She is a lot older now, and still thinks this was hilarious. I still remember that raw fear. I have never been so scared.

Yes DD - this is my MN username. I still love you just as much, but you really did frighten me that day!

There are some reasons why perceptions and 'figures' can be a little skewed here:

1. There are more 'working class' people than other classes. Therefore they're more likely to have greater numbers of incidents

2. Working class folks are more likely to be bound by their jobs, often working less sociable hours / weekends etc which can affect the amount of time children are with their fathers.

3. Working class folks are also more likely to struggle financially which has an effect on the activities and locations of parent / child. They are less likely to be spending the weekend at the safari park, and more likely to be at more readily accessible locations.

There are other factors too which can skew perception and real stats.

Only on mumsnet could someone trying to do the right thing by a child get turned into a persecution of the working class.

you should not be walking the streets with a four year old at allmost midnight.

Eh? Sometimes things happen where that's necessary

It obviously seemed more than a DF and DD situation to the OP.

I think if you had your suspicious you done the right thing. My DP would not be pissed at all if you stopped him, he would understand as would I that DC do get kidnapped and you were genuinely concerned.

Mormontsraven Really, perfectlysym seriously.

Working class Father's, you mean most father's with jobs, homes, family's, with their working class wife too, who also works been working class while doing all the childcare.

What is working class?

Aren't all working people classed as well working?

If you are working what class are you?

It seems extreme and interfering but if someone had stopped the boys who stole away and killed James Bulger, then he'd be here today. A number of adults came forward afterwards to say they'd been worried but not done anything.

Toddlers have tantrums! OP, would you have asked this question if it had been a woman? Dads can take their children out you know.

Mormontsraven, working class people WORK in low income jobs. Chavs DON'T work so they aren't working class.

Also, I am from a working class family and my dad is the most devoted and hard working father. My parents are still together and they are my cheerleaders. Most of my middle class friends have parents that have separated, whereas the parents of my working class friends are still together. You are such a snob.

But op didn't achieve anything by asking if he was a her dad?! Got a photo but that would only be useful after the event in a worse case scenario ...child was still with the man

A number of adults came forward afterwards to say they'd been worried but not done anything

RTFT, this has been debunked several times. Even if it were true, it was a massively atypical case and I don't think undermining all fathers out with their kids on the basis of a single event a quarter of a century ago is a good recipe for social cohesion.

Got a photo but that would only be useful after the event in a worse case scenario

That would still be very, very useful. And we have established that many kidnappers might give up on a particular opportunity if challenged.

Traditionally of course the upper classes would employ nanny to bring the child down for a quick look see before bed time and once old enough off to boarding school....
The middle classes would attempt to mimic this as close as their budgets allowed.
And the working class would have children with them 24/7.
Anybody carrying a screaming child in any odd circumstances should accept they maybe questioned and every parent of an abducted child will have wished their child had been seen and stopped. Taking a photo in a way that tells the person with the child they have been seen increases the chances that they will dump the child around the corner and run off rather than be identified on crimewatch after missing child reports go out.

I would be furious if you did this to my DP, how awful! As worra pointed out, doesn’t even have to be the child’s father but could be a stepfather, uncle, grandfather etc. Children being kidnapped by strangers is thankfully very rare and when it does happen, it doesn’t usually happen in a crowded place.

You were out of order.

I'm not English and I'm not a chav. However, I regularly have to deal with the moronic attitudes of white English chavs and after last weekend I'm going to call out their stupidity for what it is.

On this thread we have Flyawaypeterflyawaypaul telling me "You should not be walking the streets with a four year old at almost midnight".

I was on the street on which we live, three houses away from where we live when these two chav freaks accosted us. We live in London on a typical Victorian street of terraced houses with minimal front gardens and no off street parking. If we had a car I could very well have had to walk much further than that distance to get from the car to our house. (We don't have a car.)

It is extremely rare that our children would be out after 9 p.m. but it happens. For example, we flew back from Christmas holidays, our flight was already a late one and delayed and we were on trains home at 1.30 a.m.

I realise that some of those who post in mumsnet live in the sort of places where nothing is open after 10 p.m. and there is no public transport but realise that not everyone lives as you do.

Children being kidnapped by strangers is thankfully very rare and when it does happen, it doesn’t usually happen in a crowded place.

Can we stop using this as an excuse to be less cautious. Children aren't 'usually' abducted, but it does happen. Plenty of kidnappings have happened in broad daylight and some from well populated places.
'it never happens here' ... Until it does.

TornFromTheInside,

Exactly, rarely happening doesn't mean it has never happened. Why would we take such risks with children? They are defenslise and need to be protected.
God forbid anything like this should happen to a child while they are around, that poor child will have no chance.

FFS that is a ridiculous approach to risk assessment. If you're worried about witnessing a child abduction, worry about the kid walking along in excitement holding an adult's hand because he's just been told he's getting a new puppy. Meanwhile, by viewing all adult males interacting with small children with suspicion, you're undermining fathers as equal parents and damaging the social fabric.

I actually agree with you Tomatoes, I just didn't think pps understood what Mormontsraven was trying to say. I didn't say I agreed with him. 😀