To wonder what the point of cisgender is?

[Squatternutbosh]

I’ve just read an article where cisgender is described as “someone who identifies as the sex they were assigned at birth”. Is this an actual thing? Why is this even given a label? Surely if you were born male or female and you live as a male or female then this is what you “identify” as. (If you even feel the need to identify as anything, rather than just living your life as you).

It seems like everything must be given a label these days. The worlds gone fucking mad.

How do you know I'm not psychologically a unicorn?

Well, you can psychologically feel like a unicorn if you'd like, but a unicorn isn't defined by psychology. A unicorn looks like a horse and has a horn. 'Unicorn' is a descriptor for something physical, like sex is.

Gender, on the other hand, is not physical. It is based entirely on our psychological perceptions, experiences and feelings - ones that other people cannot experience unless they somehow master Leglimency.

what's in my head is irrelevant.

I think the human race has made it very clear that what's in our heads is probably the most important part of us.

I also assumed Rose was in the US too where gay conversion is mostly due to religious beliefs.

Can you not see that by affirming only for kids who say they are trans is dangerous Rose? There are many other factors that may be at play that need to be explored before giving out drugs that lead to massive health issues and infertility.
ASD, sexual abuse, girls simply hating their changing bodies as they start to become aware that they are being treated differently because of it.

Anorexia is body disphoria. Should we affirm that too? Send them to slimming world perhaps? No, because it's a mental health issue.
Transexuals with disphoria who need the help with their mental health are getting fucked over because simply self id-ing won't fucking help them!

Can you not see how the trans ideology is homophobic? gay kids who are told they must be trans because gay is no longer acceptable. You must be trans queer instead. Lesbians told they are transphobic for only being attracted to biological women and not wanting sex with a 'lady dick'.

Not all trans are disphoric. Did you know it now includes cross dressers and men with sexual fetishes?
Did you know that the majority of them are perfectly happy with their dicks and have no intention of having surgery? So how exactly are they women? Female?

You are happy to call them women whilst they relegate you to a lower subset by pretending the term 'cis" is merely a discriptor?

Well they can fuck right off. When I use the word woman or man I mean the biological, natal type. This refers to 99.999999% of the planets population. Most of whom will assume the same thing.
If I mean trans women I will say trans woman.

Rose,
Unicorns, like gender, are made up concepts.

'Call' was a bad choice of word, maybe 'Refer' is a better word, I didn't mean calling someone out loud cis or trans i meant if you refer to someone as trans in your mind with the meaning that they are the opposite of their assigned gender and that sits fine with you as a concept of the word trans then you should have that same mindset about cis as a concept towards yourself (if you identify that way, gender fluid is im assuming outside of those two latin words but I don't know enough to comment myself, is it Pangender?

Pan -a combining form meaning “all,” occurring originally in loanwords from Greek (panacea; panoply), but now used freely as a general formative (panleukopenia; panorama; pantelegraph; pantheism; pantonality), and especially in terms, formed at will, implying the union of all branches of a group (Pan-Christian; Panhellenic; Pan-Slavism). )

But a discussion on gender could go on forever and i'm not really here for that, OP asked what the point of the term Cis was and it's just the other side of the coin to Trans, its not a 'made up' word and I just wanted to show that in case people didnt know (:

To marginalise women.

Unicorns, like gender, are made up concepts.

I feel like a stuck record saying this in these types of discussions, but:

just because something is a social construct does not mean people will not rely on, be impacted, or operate differently within it

@ijustwannadance

Obviously I agree that medication that could have permanent effect should be prescribed wisely.

Comparing sending an anorexic to Slimming World to allowing trans people to live their lives as the gender they identify as is so grossly twisted that I feel a little bit sick to be honest. Surely you realised how that sounded as you typed it? It's a disgusting thing to say.

I'm not being "lowered" when they say cis. Whether it's simply being used as a descriptor - because that's what it is - or they're using it as an insult, I don't take offence. I've stated before, I'd be a twat to do so.

I don't feel 'like a woman', I feel like me, who happens to be a woman. I know this because I have female body parts. It's nothing to do with feelings.

Just as transwomen continue to have male body parts. Even if they have medicine and surgery, their bodies are still biologically male. And transmen are still biologically female.

Accepting that would, imo, make life simpler for everyone.

Your gender identity is corresponding to your sex.

That is exactly why cis is seen by many as insulting. Sex is about biology. I am an adult female thus a woman. Gender is the social construct that includes things like "women like pink, men are good at DIY". Do I agree with gendered stereotypes about the two sexes - no I don't, so why would I say that my sex corresponds with societal gender expectations? I don't believe that sex should determine how anyone, male or female, acts. So to call me cis implies I am happy to buy into gender stereotypes and is thus incorrect and offensive.

I thought MN had banned the term 'cis'. Or is that only on the feminist boards?

Gender is the social construct that includes things like "women like pink, men are good at DIY". Do I agree with gendered stereotypes about the two sexes - no I don't, so why would I say that my sex corresponds with societal gender expectations?

This is apparently a very common misconception, but trans people don't mean they identify with stereotypes that are associated with the other gender. They mean that they feel that they are the other gender, no definers or stereotypes applied.

I thought MN had banned the term 'cis'. Or is that only on the feminist boards?

I don't know, but I don't think they're taking down posts with the word "cis" in them so I'd assume it was only on feminist boards, or if it was being used in an insulting way.

Comparing sending an anorexic to Slimming World to allowing trans people to live their lives as the gender they identify as is so grossly twisted that I feel a little bit sick to be honest. Surely you realised how that sounded as you typed it? It's a disgusting thing to say

So you take that part of my post without the rest of it for context? Hmm.
NO ONE is stopping people living how they want to live or presenting as they wish. I was simply pointing out the danger in only affirming all children who say they are trans. Medical professionals and psychologists will no longer be allowed to explore/consider other potential causes because it will be called conversion therapy and transphobic?
How does that help the teen with undiagnosed ASD or someone who has been abused and is trying to escape their biological reality?

Gender has no place it’s a social construct we could all do without. You are defined by your dna biologically. No amount of hormones/surgery will change that. I also can’t say I’ve ever felt like a man or women. I just am who I am in my biolocaly body. It is quite concerning that those who choose to define how they feel like a women normally do so with the face full of make up, big boobs, skimpy outfits etc that’s using a hyper sexualised version of the female body. Which screams more fetish than anything else.

Normal trans are not the ones shouting loudly about lady penisis? And calling lesbians transphobic for not having sex with them. Normal trans people are just getting on with their lives dressing like normal not over sexualised versions of who they feel they are. They are the ones getting abuse drm and because of those shouting loudly damaging the true trans cause.

This is apparently a very common misconception, but trans people don't mean they identify with stereotypes that are associated with the other gender. They mean that they feel that they are the other gender, no definers or stereotypes applied

Which is why it's fine for them to use that label with regard to themselves, and I have no issue with them doing so. Although please note they used to be refered to as transsexual, before everyone started, mistakenly, conflating sex and gender. However, none of that makes it ok for people to label a group of people with a term that that group find offensive. Many women find the term cis offensive and incorrect, thus it's impolite to call then that.

This is apparently a very common misconception, but trans people don't mean they identify with stereotypes that are associated with the other gender. They mean that they feel that they are the other gender, no definers or stereotypes applied.

But how would they know that what they’re feeling is what folk of the opposite sex feels - it just doesn’t make sense. A male feeling out of sorts with maleness, with their body, being desperately unhappy - none of this means they are a woman instead.

'Trans' and 'cis' are not a binary in which they are the only two options.

Then why the constant insistence that people who don't identify as trans (or non-binary, which most non-binary people I know, or know of, see as a type of trans) must accept the label "cis"?

So you take that part of my post without the rest of it for context? Hmm.
NO ONE is stopping people living how they want to live or presenting as they wish. I was simply pointing out the danger in only affirming all children who say they are trans.

I didn't 'take' out any part of your post. I addressed it as a whole while you ignored everything except that It's a disgusting comparison and I think you know that.

There is obviously danger in prescribing medication or diagnosing without any sort of affirmation, as I stated earlier.

I'm in agreement, @chillpizza, that there are some loud voices which unfortunately people are choosing to listen to and condemning all trans people as a result

Many women find the term cis offensive and incorrect, thus it's impolite to call then that.

Like I said, I've stopped using it on here, because a lot of Mumsnet have an aversion to it.

I guess I can kind of get why people find it upsetting when it is often said in an insulting tone. Its like how people get upset at being called white or rich or straight in a derogatory way. I could never take offence at one of those terms though.

NekoShiro I'm not cis. I'm not trans. I'm not genderqueer. I'm not nonbinary. I'm not any of those things. If you or anyone else insists on using those labels for me, you must use all those labels on me equally, as they are all as (non)valid as one another, when applied to me.

I'm just an adult human woman.

FFS people, can't we just live and let live? If you (by 'you' I mean people in general, I'm not addressing a specific poster), don't like the terminology/find it unnecessary/don't feel it 'speaks' to you, that's your prerogative. But it doesn't give you the right to belittle people who are facing struggles others may not even be capable of contemplating, who may happen to find a certain term or category helpful.

Why are so many people obsessed with invalidating anything they don't personally agree with or identify with?

I will never use cis. I think the whole thing is just ridiculous. I have 2 children, a girl and a boy and I will bring them up to refer to themselves as girl/woman. Boy/man. That's what they are/will be.

Societies in which there has been complete freedom of gender identity, for example the ancient Native American community, often have a higher level of respect for women than societies surrounding them

I just wanted to come back to this as it also shows a complete misunderstanding of the role of gender within the various Native American/First Nations/American Indian societies.

There was immense diversity in how gendered the nations were; in the ones that had the strictest gender roles, there were often additional gender roles that could be taken up. They were found less in communities which had less strict gender roles.

The ignorant idea that 'there was complete freedom of gender identity' is just a modern iteration of the old, patronising 'noble savage' claptrap, promoted by (mainly white) people who call themselves 'two spirit' but would be horrified if you pointed out this was blatant cultural appropriation.

FFS people, can't we just live and let live? If you (by 'you' I mean people in general, I'm not addressing a specific poster), don't like the terminology/find it unnecessary/don't feel it 'speaks' to you, that's your prerogative. But it doesn't give you the right to belittle people who are facing struggles others may not even be capable of contemplating, who may happen to find a certain term or category helpful.

The amazing thing about this paragraph, bringincrazyback, is that any of the women here who are objecting to the term "cis" being applied to them could have said it.

I'm a woman. I find that term helpful. I find it upsetting when people belittle me for wanting to use it, instead of the term "cis woman". I find it especially upsetting when it is used towards me by males, whether gender nonconforming or not, who are not capable of contemplating the struggles faced by women.

Bringingcrazyback

Becsuse it’s led to laws bring changed thst affrct everyone - especially women and girls. Extremely violent men who torture, murder and rape have been sent to female prisons, males are competing (and winning) in female sports. A friend had a male who ssys he’s a woman walk in on her when she was alone and naked in our sports club communal showers/changing area. The management backed the man so all the women who had bern there years stopped using the facilities.

If you understand what "trans" means, then you can just think of it as "not trans." It's not a insult, and it's really not that complicated.

If someone referred to me as a cis woman I think I would laugh.

What a complete lot of bollocks this is becoming.

Magpiesarehuge

I assume the gym will soon alter that policy when they start to loose money.