To wonder what the point of cisgender is?

[Squatternutbosh]

I’ve just read an article where cisgender is described as “someone who identifies as the sex they were assigned at birth”. Is this an actual thing? Why is this even given a label? Surely if you were born male or female and you live as a male or female then this is what you “identify” as. (If you even feel the need to identify as anything, rather than just living your life as you).

It seems like everything must be given a label these days. The worlds gone fucking mad.

@prawnofthepatriarchy I apologise for being patronising, particuIarly as I am a guest here, and a man. I was setting out my limited understanding of the terms. Perhaps gender expression wasn't a good place to start.

However, I haven't seen a great definition of gender identity that wasn't circular here, so I thought I throw that out there. Not only that, there appears to be a great deal of conflation amongst posters (on both sides) between gender identity and gender expression, and confusion over the connection between them, which is why I drew them together.

To the PP suggesting it’s a good thing that minority groups in our society aren’t respected and listened to, therefore it’s a bad thing that trans individuals have managed to make their presence known and assert their rights, you should be genuinely ashamed of yourself. For both parts of that frightening statement.

That is a ridiculous extrapolation of what I said and is simply made up of your own inferences

U was being patronising tbh.

The term is generally only used when having specific discussions which involve gender and it’s spectrum - it’s just a descriptive word that’s all.
In every day life no one is (I assume) referring to you as a CIS woman? And if they are not then what does the existence of a descriptive term really matter to you?

There will be people and groups for whom the description is relevant in conversation and discussion, just bc you’re not one of those people doesn’t make the term ridiculous or redundant.

Skimbleskanks, gender is a spectrum, so everyone is non-binary (as there is not a binary to be).

I don't see how people can have a problem with cis and not with straight or neuro-typical. All minority groups feel the need to label the majority so that the majority don't use the label "normal".

Although women mightn't identify with the sexist roles commonly associated with women, they do identify as woman. If asked they will say that they are a woman.

I don’t identify as a woman. Am just one.

And not being stuffed into any gender box

@Moonkissedlegs Hmm. I absolutely agree that its ciswomen feminists who support sex-based protection who get the brunt of the insults from the other side. Men, as always, get away with a lot more.

I don't agree that anyone should be expected to accept anyone as a sexual partner, or be attracted to particular genitals which don't match their preference.

All that is true, but it didn't answer the question:

Are there any steps transwomen could take that would satfisfy you that they identify as women, or is that you don't think transwomen are women and should never be allowed in female spaces?

I suspect your answer is nothing, and no and you want sex-based segregation of all changing rooms and bathrooms.

Just to make it fair, I'll answer from my POV. Based on what has happened in the rest of the world, I am happy with self-id for men and women. I prefer a pragmatic solution to the changing room issue, which is unisex facilities. Our local swimming pool has small and large individual cubicles and you can change in them. If you frame the issue as "I don't want to see a particular type of genitals" this deals with the problem.

I am in favour of the current law on sex-based protections, think trans bathroom panic is ridiculously inflated, when there are so, so many ways men can abuse and mistreat women which don't involve a convolluted and unlikely scheme of pretending to be transwomen. The alternative, (checking suspicous peoples' chromosomes at the door?) is completely unworkable, discriminates against people who are not typcial of their sex, or have atypical gender expression.

Sex based protections are enshrined in law, and will continue to be.

That is a very dubious assertion, DadJoke. We already have women who asked for a female HCP to perform their smear test being faced with a visibly male person. The single sex spaces women need for our safety, dignity and privacy are under attack. So forgive me if I don't agree.

The provisions of the Equality Act are in opposition to Self ID. That's why women are campaigning against it

of pretending to be transwomen.

They dint have to pretend...thats the whole bloody point!!

DadJoke, if you are in fact male, then I don't give a flying fuck what risks or invasions you think women should tolerate for your brave new world.

Panic? Fuck that shit!

And what about of there is a hatred of your sex characteristics but you also don’t believe in gender, what is that person like labelled as under this terminology? Can’t be agender nor cis

@Prawnofthepatriarchy My recollection of that incident was that is was an error for which they apologised. I could be wrong.

dad you need to stop calling littldog cis when she says she isnt

You seem very comfortable telling women what they are, DadJoke.

Hey chardonnays

Long time no see...you may not recognise me as ive name changed

@BossPeeBeePee

I'm not convinced they're "oppressed" as you put it, unless not allowing people with penises into female spaces is oppression?

You honestly think that transwomen don't suffer disproprionate oppression? They are mocked, villified and subject to hate crime. It's not zero-sum game. Transwomen receive gender-based oppression, as do ciswomen, transmen and ciswomen incur a different kind of oppression based on their biology.

And as for "Cis", I find it just as offensive as I would if a POC called me "Whitey"

I think you are diving pretty low if you are restorting to the reverse racism argument! There is no power behind that word when directed at white people.

Transwomen =gender based oppression

Transman =biology based oppression

Women = biology AND gender based oppression

Yeah?

Ffs, I’m not even trying to be goads with my question, would really like to just know what the label would be under that terminology.

I did, Rufus, you never stray far from a reindeer.

I suppose you could be a cis reindeer.

Cis is not the same as using straight or gay. Those refer to sexual orientation.

Gay/straight/black/white/NT/old/young/ disabled women have one thing in common. Biology. Adult human females.

Trans women do not fit in this category because they are already in the adult human male catergory.

@Rufustheyawningreindeer
dad you need to stop calling littldog cis when she says she isnt

This is a thread about the use of the word "cis." I said "under this terminology" you are a ciswomen. She is a women who is not a transwoman.

If we were talking about the use of the word "cuck" in the contexts of MRAs, then under that terminology, while I disagree with it, I would be a "cuck".

@Rufustheyawningreindeer all true - but pile "transphobia" on top of the transgender people.