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Original poster

To wonder what the point of cisgender is?

502 replies

Squatternutbosh · 04/07/2018 20:36

I’ve just read an article where cisgender is described as “someone who identifies as the sex they were assigned at birth”. Is this an actual thing? Why is this even given a label? Surely if you were born male or female and you live as a male or female then this is what you “identify” as. (If you even feel the need to identify as anything, rather than just living your life as you).

It seems like everything must be given a label these days. The worlds gone fucking mad.

OP posts:
DadJoke · 05/07/2018 14:15

@Moonkissedlegs Hmm.

Are there any steps transwomen could take that would satfisfy you that they identify as women, or is that you don't think transwomen are women and should never be allowed in female spaces?

LyndseyKola · 05/07/2018 14:16

Why do we not get a choice in what we are labelled?

Huh? What are you talking about?

To the PP suggesting it’s a good thing that minority groups in our society aren’t respected and listened to, therefore it’s a bad thing that trans individuals have managed to make their presence known and assert their rights, you should be genuinely ashamed of yourself. For both parts of that frightening statement.

Moonkissedlegs · 05/07/2018 14:17

As far as I know, Ireland has exemptions to its self ID law, plus a slight difference in culture when it comes to trans issues, which make it difficult to compare to the UK.

rosesandflowers1 · 05/07/2018 14:18

So does that me a transman?

I don't know what your gender is, but no, your gender identity isn't based off of which stereotypes you best slot into. So being logical doesn't make you a trans man.

DadJoke · 05/07/2018 14:19

@reallanotherone Don't confuse gender expression with gender identity. What you wear and what you do does not define your gender identity. So, you are most likely a ciswoman.

rosesandflowers1 · 05/07/2018 14:19

Ireland has exemptions to its self ID law, plus a slight difference in culture when it comes to trans issues, which make it difficult to compare to the UK.

Is the UK planning to have similar exemptions in the self ID law?

What differences in culture there will make it different?

littlbrowndog · 05/07/2018 14:22

Lols dadjoke. Did u actually just say u was a cisman?

I never heard that before from any guy and I never hear a woman describ3 herself as a ciswoman

Where do u live that this is stuff being said

DadJoke · 05/07/2018 14:22

@Moonkissedlegs

"I really don't care how people 'identify' or what their 'identity' is. They can express themselves how they want, wear what they want, act how they want. I don't care. But that shouldn't shape laws around sex based protections for women."

You are conflating identity with expression. Sex based protections are enshrined in law, and will continue to be.

DrowningNotWaving36383736 · 05/07/2018 14:22

If you don’t feel Male or female in the mind but also don’t like your body, then what is that person to be labelled as?

DadJoke · 05/07/2018 14:23

@littlbrowndog in the context of an in-depth discussion about trans issues discussing the word cis, it makes sense to demonstrate the correct terminology. I wouldn't need to use it day-to-day.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 05/07/2018 14:24

DadJoke, there's a belief among those who support the transactivist agenda that if we pesky non believers only understood the issues we'd be sold.

However explaining gender expression etc to a bunch of feminists just makes you look a bit dense and very patronising. Do you think we're not aware of the issues?

We are all too aware. There is a great deal of fact and logic behind our opposition to the trans agenda. It's not being ignorant that fuels my opposition. Quite the contrary. It's been listening to transactivists and their allies that illuminated the issues. There's a saying that's very popular on Mumsnet, and that's "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."

littlbrowndog · 05/07/2018 14:24

Wat correct terminology thing ?

littlbrowndog · 05/07/2018 14:25

And wat demonstrate. To who are u demonstrate

DadJoke · 05/07/2018 14:25

@DrowningNotWaving36383736 I guess it depends how dislike your body! Some agender people feel very uncomfortable with the sexed aspects of their bodies.

littlbrowndog · 05/07/2018 14:25

Demonstrating

Moonkissedlegs · 05/07/2018 14:26

Are there any steps transwomen could take that would satfisfy you that they identify as women, or is that you don't think transwomen are women and should never be allowed in female spaces?

It's interesting that this question is always put to women and never to men. It reminds me of when James O'brien on the radio was goading that listener on the point at which a transwomen becomes an 'actual woman'.

Whereas I am guessing if he was asked the question himself the answer would he clear. I am pretty sure he is one of the 'I see them fully as women except for relationship purposes' types.

Men are never expected to see transwomen as 'actual' women that they would want to have sex with. You only have to look at any part of the Internet anywhere ever to see that, and to see that men don't believe that transwomen are women. They have no qualms about saying it either. And no one questions it, no one ever tells men they are 'transphobic' for not wanting to suck on someone's 'female penis'. Owen Jones told someone on twitter it was 'erasing him as a gay man' to ask if he would perform cunninglingus on a trans man. Whilst lesbians are accused of transphobia for not wanting to have sexual relationships with transwomen.

Men are allowed their boundaries and they are allowed to state them loud and proud.

Women have to put in all sorts of qualifiers, to 'satisfy' certain criteria on their boundaries. They are never allowed to just say no.

IfNot · 05/07/2018 14:27

I hate it when people refer to trans-women as 'man in a frock'. I have a trans friend who is very gentle and kind and has suffered all kinds of agony to feel brave to enough to dress in a way that makes her feel good about herself. The idea of someone muttering this at her as she walks by breaks my heart.

Well now, it's a big step from stating a fact (men in frocks are men in frocks) to suggesting that any woman on here would "mutter things" at transsexual or trans identifying man as they walk by!
What makes you think many of us don't know any trans people? I do. I know 3.
I have already said (many posters have also said) that I would use whatever pronoun is preferred.
I'm not remotely scared or fearful of trans people.(I am anti self id but that's because I don't want women and girls to be unable to challenge men in single sex spaces. It's a safety issue. And I want women to be able you take up opportunities meant for them without men taking them ).
I grew up in the 90s. All my boyfriends had long hair, all my girlfriends had short hair.
I went to gay clubs, and fetish clubs, I knew men who wore dresses and still do.
There seems to be a misconception that women not wanting a qualifier before their sex is linked to some kind of bigotry. It isn't.
And it's not about "being more of a woman" because being a woman is not a sliding scale, or membership of a club.
I will and do treat everyone with kindness and respect, and would never purposely hurt anyone but I will refuse to be called something that offend me.

DadJoke · 05/07/2018 14:27

@liittebrowngdog i am not sure if you are taking the piss. This is a thread which is entitled "To wonder what the point of cisgender is?"

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 05/07/2018 14:27

Cant believe that people on mumsnet are starting to tell people how they should identify as

It only seems to be poster A telling poster B that they are cis to be honest...dont generally see it the other way round

You ok littlbrowndog... words can be weaponised Sad

Skimbleskanks · 05/07/2018 14:27

The only thing worse than being cis is being cis het. How dull you must be! I'm non binary of course, because I wear trousers sometimes.

StorminaBcup · 05/07/2018 14:30

Gender politics is fighting over the crumbs.The real prize would be sexual equality and then all of this would frankly be superfluous.

Yup. 👍

DrowningNotWaving36383736 · 05/07/2018 14:30

I guess it depends how dislike your body! Some agender people feel very uncomfortable with the sexed aspects of their bodies

But if they don’t believe in gender?

For example I don’t believe in gender, I don’t feel male or female in my mind, I also detest having breasts/ a vagina/periods.

I can’t be A-gender because the I don’t need believe in gender. So what should I be labelled as?

Lottapianos · 05/07/2018 14:30

'I am pretty sure he is one of the 'I see them fully as women except for relationship purposes' types. '

AKA, a massive hypocrite. Oh yes, that's him alright

rosesandflowers1 · 05/07/2018 14:31

It's interesting that this question is always put to women and never to men.

Probably because all the discussion going on is about trans women being allowed to enter female-only spaces?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 05/07/2018 14:33

No, Lindsay, I didn't accuse you of anything specifically. But the brigading and sock puppeting are blatant.

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