to think that Vegans shouldnt own pets?

[Tryagaintomorrow]

we've just had the discussion at work and have concluded that if the animal is stray/rescued/injured/unwanted etc and would be killed without an owner then this is OK, however if the animal has been bred to sell then that is not OK as it goes against vegan beliefs of not using animals for commercial gain.
Of course there is the argument that no one should buy a pet whilst there are so many to be rehomed, but that's a different story.
Thoughts, have we missed something?

Well they probably don't do they? Or have you come across lots of pet-buying vegans?! I only know ones who own rescue pets or don't have any. I can't imagine many vegans are going to be strolling into pets at home. Only caveat to that is that not everybody is vegan for animal welfare reasons, some people are vegan for the health benefits.

What is the commercial gain from pet ownership or am I missing something - is it because it props up animal feed industry and veterinary medicine etc or is it about the commodification of non human species in general?

I have a couple of vegan friends they have pets not bought from breeders but rescues I think they see it is companionship and no harm to the animal. I guess it is a personal choice like their veganisim they also feed their cats/dog meat

it is true that i only know a limited number (3 that i can immediately think of) but two of them have become vegan for welfare reasons, 1 is for health benefits.
The first 2 own purchased pets.
So we could be generalising a bit too much i guess

What is the commercial gain from pet ownership or am I missing something

Commercial gain for whoever is breeding the animals for sale I would imagine, not commercial gain for yourself from owning the animal.

commercial gain being people/companies breeding animals to make profit on selling them.

I know a vegan who wants a cat, but doesn’t want to support the meat industry in order to feed the cat. It’s a tricky one.

My friend is a vegan and has 2 very over bred pedigree dogs. However she got them about 8 years before she even considered becoming a vegan. She loves them and cares for them very well but I imagine if she ever gets another pet she'll rescue.

Stupid vegans who buy from breeders and/or think that as humans can be perfectly well on a vegan diet, it's OK to deny meat to animals- they should not own pets. I seriously doubt that applies to many vegans though.

I identity as a vegan (plant based diet, and don't buy animal products for clothes etc...), and I have purchased dogs.

Dog ownership happened before I converted to veganism. My dogs inspired my change to veganism. I was asked to sign a petition about a dog meat festival, and I was horrified about the thought of eating dogs. That whole event then lead the thought process about what other animals and animal products I eat and why.

Would I 'buy' another dog in the future? I'm not sure.

I’m technically omnivorous but mostly dip in and out of a plant based lifestyle because I can’t afford to eat animal products and have pets.

Would love to see a general shift from the concept of ownership towards one of guardianship or similar, in law, there are lots of ethical problems bothering me about pets.

I’m vegetarian not vegan, so I don’t know if I’m included, but my pet is a rescue. He also eats a vegan diet, because he is a rabbit.

Only if they plan to eat them.

@Mostdays

Many vegans live perfectly fine on a vegan diet thanks. I have for 11 years and I’m running marathons and never been at the Dr other than to get my pill. What is it that is supposed to be happening to me?

Back to the OP - did your friends definitely not buy them pre-vegan? I know many vegans and not known one to buy an animal since going vegan. Generally it is thought that we should stop breeding pets and let them die out, but whilst they are here we should help them.

As someone above said it is morally difficult due to feeding cats meat, I do it, but it doesn’t sit comfortably with me that I’m choosing the cat over other animals.

Amused by the thought of you and your friends discussing what is ok and not ok for vegans to do. Phew, at least you have sorted that out now.

Unless you are a vegan, why on earth do you give a fuck? Unless it is to do what idiots do when they argue with vegetarians and vegans and do their best to 'get one over' on them in a very twattish manner.

@45redballoons

You've misread her post. Look again.

Difficult one.

I'd have more of an issue with vegetarians choosing the diet for welfare/moral reasons yet still consuming dairy, that's far more hypocritical.

@Jamie you are absolutely right, I read it repeatedly as ‘just as humans can’t’

@Mostdays sorry! Clearly not doing anything to change your mind that vegans are stupid

@vegans - sorry team

I am against commercial animal breeding in any case, which I have been since well before I was vegan. I do have a cat, who was given to me by a friend of a friend in exchange for a very small contribution towards getting the mother spayed (and she was spayed)
I feed him meat, because he is a carnivore. Much of his diet is fresh and organic (from the garden )

I think, like the reasons behind veganism and vegetarianism in general, it's hard to make a conclusive argument one way or another, because of the wide ranging and often unintended consequences and impact of our actions.
So, for instance, I'm a vegetarian who cooks for a meat eating family - I'll sometimes cook my food and theirs in the same dish. This means I can cook in a smaller oven, using less resources for cooking and cleaning. Makes me a shit vegetarian in some people's eyes, but I'm mainly motivated by reducing my impact on the environment, and I don't need a badge!
I've got two rescue dogs who eat commercially prepared dog food (meat based). If I'm honest with myself, I'm uncomfortable with the principle of people 'owning' animals, and I know that pet food production has a considerable environmental impact. But, on the other hand, we're in a situation where we've breed lots of animals for our pleasure and enjoyment, and therefore we have to take responsibility for those animals and give them a decent life.

Reading that back, it makes me sound really pious - that's not the intention, I live my life the way I believe I should, and I don't judge anyone else for their decisions, as they can be based on a complex set of ethics, dilemmas, reasons. Like many ethical arguments, I don't think the vegan vs. pet / animal keeping is black and white.

if the animal has been bred to sell then that is not OK as it goes against vegan beliefs

And who are you to explain “vegan beliefs” to the rest of us? Maybe they just do it for health reasons? Are you the same idiot person who was “smug” because she saw a vegan kill a fly?

No one should buy pets (except from rescuse centres where the fee goes to running the shelter). It would be hypocritical for ethical vegans to buy them as it promotes the over breeding of animls, the death of pets not rescued and allows other to profit off animals.

I don't know any vegans who would do that.

yes it's hypocritical for vegans to own pets but everyone is a hypocrite in one way or another.

My DM is vegan. She owns a lot of animals that run around freely (she has a farmhouse) and she will feed dogs and cats with food that has meat in it. She says it's her choice to not eat meat but the animals need it so she won't ever take that away from them. All her animals are also rescue animals - she goes for ones she things other people won't take e.g. she's got a dog with only 3 legs.

I know another vegan who has an indoor cat and has put the cat on a plant based diet which is cruel. This vegan also bought the cat for a fortune.

Surely it's their own business. What if someone is vegan for health reasons. Do they have to ditch the Labrador too?