to think that Vegans shouldnt own pets?

[Tryagaintomorrow]

we've just had the discussion at work and have concluded that if the animal is stray/rescued/injured/unwanted etc and would be killed without an owner then this is OK, however if the animal has been bred to sell then that is not OK as it goes against vegan beliefs of not using animals for commercial gain.
Of course there is the argument that no one should buy a pet whilst there are so many to be rehomed, but that's a different story.
Thoughts, have we missed something?

vegan beliefs of not using animals for commercial gain.

This isn't what vegans believe. Nobody gets a commercial gain from consuming animals products.

Vegans believe that it is fundamentally exploitative to use animal products because animals cannot consent to it, and because accessing animal products requires cruelty to animals.

These issues do not necessarily come into play with pet ownership. Owning a cat which you provide for is not exploiting that animal in the way that obtaining meat or dairy is.

There are layers to this - some vegans would not own horses because they consider riding to be exploitative, or would not own cats and dogs because they cannot be fed a vegan diet. Others see both of these things as fine, and distinct from the issue of consuming animal products.

What I think is unfair is holding vegans to a standard no one else is held to. Vegans already consume more ethically than meat-eaters or vegetarians by not consuming animal products. It's incredibly hypocritical for non-vegans to criticise vegans for having pets when their own behaviours are so much more detrimental to animal welfare generally.

There is no one way to be vegan - it's a wide ranging label that encompasses a spectrum of beliefs of varying strictness. But like anyone, vegans are entitled to negotiate their own beliefs according to what is best for them.

@45redballoons it's fine but you might want to read it again as I'm not even saying that vegans are stupid! I'm saying that a vegan who bought from a breeder and/ or wanted to enforce a vegan diet on an animal would be stupid but that I doubt many vegans are that stupid.

I probably did not write that post very well at all. I'm blaming the lack of old recipe Irn Bru.

Most of my friends are vegans and I think their beliefs cross a wide spectrum.

Yes a few firmly believe that using animals at all for human benefit - including pet ownership is wrong - but others have very different views.

Its a bit like saying that all Christians feel exactly the same about eating fish on Fridays and sex before marriage - we accept that they have vastly different beliefs but vegan are a single homogenous group????

Si in answer to your question - have we missed something? Yes you have missed that fact that vegans are individual human beings with individual thoughts and feelings.

So I dip in and out if Veganism. I want to be a vegan for ethical reasons (against factory farming and in particular the dairy industry). However I find it very difficult (time consuming, but practical to grab snacks when out and about, annoying for family and friends when they invite you for supper etc).

I have lots and lots of pets. Only one I paid money for was the horse. The rest are rescues.

The only thing is though, using the train of thought, that we shouldn’t breed more meat eating pets and let them die out naturally, does that mean that eventually all meat eating animals should die off and the world have just herbivores? Not sure that would be sustainable ? (Although obviously mass production of meat in the current scale isn’t either) z

All my vegan friends are committed rescuers.

Unless you're a vegan, I can't see what it's got to do with you.

Why do people sit on the sidelines watching out for vegetarians and vegans to make a mistake and expose the whole thing as a terrible hypocrisy? They're trying their best, no one's perfect.

Why can't people understand that others become vegan or vegetarian for many reasons?

I'm a vegetarian of over 20 years and I get occasional idiotic comments about why am I wearing leather shoes.

I'd have more of an issue with vegetarians choosing the diet for welfare/moral reasons yet still consuming dairy, that's far more hypocritical.

Honestly, why is everyone so concerned with the potential hypocrisy of vegans and vegetarians?!

Do you know what's also hypocritical? Consuming meat and doing any of the following things:

Claiming to be an animal lover
Expressing concern about the environment
Bemoaning the plight of orangutans
Complaining about plastic packaging
Cooing over cute calves and piglets

And you know what? That's ok. Everyone is a hypocrite sometimes. Everyone has ideals that they stand by in principle but fail to live up to at all times. Everyone falls short of the moral standards they wish to uphold. That is part of being human.

But holding vegans and vegetarians to a higher standard than meat eaters is just absurd. Having 'a problem' with vegetarians indulging in behaviours that you indulge in yourself just because they don't eat meat is clearly unfair, and likely just a defence mechanism from people who feel bad about their choices.

I know a vegan who had a bird (I think a Canary) in a cage...
I thought it was completely ridiculous. I am not vegan and I even think that is one of the cruelest ways of keeping a pet, a bird in a cage...really? a bird is supposed to be flying around

Its a bit like saying that all Christians feel exactly the same about eating fish on Fridays and sex before marriage - we accept that they have vastly different beliefs but vegan are a single homogenous group????

This. It's usually just an excuse to moan about vegans, really.

Anyway OP I would say that most (the vast majority) of vegans do not buy pets.

YABU. It’s a pet! They clearly love animals. they’re not eating it!

Yes you're right, but most of us are hypocrites in one way or another, including many meat eaters as Notlivestock points out.

At least they're trying.

I'm vegetarian but I wear leather shoes and drink non-vegetarian wine and cheese.

Why shouldn't vegans give a home to, love and care for a pet.

It's not like they are planning to eat their cat or dog nor breed it and milk it to make cheese.

Loving and caring for an animal till it's dying day is a symbiotic relationship not an exploitative one in my eyes but that's just my opinion.

Maybe the vegans know the reasoning behind their ethics and choices better than you do. I am a vegetation and do several things which some people tell me (seemingly with glee) that I shouldn't do or that make me a 'bad vegetatian'. The truth is that each of the choices I have made that relate to this have been made with a great deal of thought - not made lightly. If people have made the choice to be vegan it is probably safe to assume that they have given these things a lot more thought than someone whose has other priorities.

I’m a veggie that wears leather shoes... my reply those finger pointing is that ‘I DONT EAT MY SHOES’.

Do vegans feed their dogs/animals meat??

What? Not all vegans go vegan for animal welfare reasons.

"I’m a veggie that wears leather shoes" - this is a great example. Some of the obvious options are extremely expensive 'ethical shoes' which last a long time. Cheap and nasty manmade fabric shoes which will end up in landfill. Cheap fabric shoes which can cost a lot (environmentally) to produce and also end up in landfill. Good quality leather shoes which involve animal cruelty (I understand that this is an opinion - not universally accepted) in the production but last a long time. Very over-simplified but sometimes it's a choice between the least-worst options, especially if cost is a factor.

my friend (the vegan for health benefits) was part of this discussion hence what its got to do with me.

she was wondering what her options were in terms of pet ownership if she wants to identify as Vegan.
Or is there a term that "health benefit vegans" use to differ their diet from their lifestyle. Just say restricted diet and do whatever else you want?

I like where someone has suggested animal guardianship instead of ownership - pretty sure my dogs own me anyway!

There is a sliding scale of consumption from meat reduction at one end through to dietary and lifestyle veganism at the other. Unless you are joining a society there are no rules you have to sign up to, most of us who are vegetarian or vegan for moral reasons do the best they can. For me I have not entirely cut out dairy and eggs but I usually buy vegan cheese, usually use plant milk and now only buy one pint a week of organic milk from a very special farm for the rest of my family who are moving in the same direction. I don't need some random stranger on an internet forum to tell me where to get my dog from, though FYI it would always be a rescue because there is no point at all in the breeding of more dogs when there are already plenty of lovely ones who need homes.

Vegans don't fit into a one size fits all box.

They can choose not to consume animal products because of the industry practices, or simply because they don't like to eat animals, or because of health reasons, or any combination of the above.

If the animal is purchased from a reputable breeder, one that does proper health testing, and is promoting good standards for that breed, why should that be an issue for someone simply because they don't eat meat?

I’m vegan.

Have many pets!

So I purchased my first girl, I will never do this again. I will not fuel a ‘market’ where animals are exploited for profit when there’s very little need. However, I think it would be fine if some bred one litter. Most people don’t breed but for those who do they should have to prove that breeding would be either of benefit to the breed itself or because the current line has a particular trait that is useful in X circumstance.

Burn buying animals does not sit well with my vegan principals.

I do feed my dogs a raw diet and their biscuit is not vegan. I have a higher level of consciousness than my dogs and therefore I have made the descion to be vegan. My dogs, however, lack that capacity and to feed them a vegan diet would be harmful to them. Nobody infringes my ability to be vegan and that tolerance works both ways.

i'd hate to believe there were vegans feeding cats vegan diets, i can't believe anyone that loves animals would feed one inappropriately.

Rabbits are your best choice if you want a pet you can feed a vegan diet to aren't they?

OP if your friend wants to own pets but not handle meat then rabbits or guinea pigs might be a good option. Rescue centres usually have lots of these looking for new homes.

In the vegan community those who go vegan for health reasons and only remove animal products from their diet rather than clothes, cosmetics etc. Are generally referred to as plant-based rather than vegan. I’m not sure if they or anyone else refers to them that way though. So it sounds odd to me that people are in here saying that someone might be vegan for health reasons.