How upset is ok for nursery before enough is enough?

[Babysharkdoodoodoooooo]

So AIBU to think its time to say nursery isn't working..? Please be gentle- posted here for more traffic. It may seem trivial but it's caused a huge dispute between DH & I so I need some opinions before I make things worse by continuing arguing my opinion (if I'm wrong!)

Backstory, 13 month old baby has been signed up for nursery as it was the best we looked around and seemed to have nice staff. He's been for several "trial days". The first 2 were for half an hour & he seemed ok. On coming back, he was sat on the lap of one of the nursery staff playing. The third time, when I arrived, he was asleep but gasping how he does when he has gone to sleep crying (I've only ever seen him do it post vaccines previously so must have been very upset prior to falling asleep), third time DH was called to get him early because he was so upset, 4th time DH again called to collect him because he'd been crying solidly for 2 hours.

He's a very sociable baby. Has been looked after by various family members & a nanny without problems.

DH feels he will be fine & should continue going to nursery & doesn't want to pay more for a nanny. As of next week we are both back at work 2 hours from nursery so if upset, we can't get to him as we have done previously. A nanny who provided emergency childcare on a few occasions & whom he has been happy with has just had an opening & offered to take him instead but obviously as a nanny, is considerably more than nursery. DH says it is unnecessary expenditure and he just needs more time to settle. I'm not sure when enough is enough. For reference, he will be at nursery 3 days a week for 12 hours a day although thus far 2 hours is the maximum that's gone by before one of us has been called.

Am I being unreasonable? Does he just need more time to settle in at nursery? The staff say when he's gone, he just lies on the floor crying but when he is with anyone else, he is a highly sociable, happy baby. Friends are telling me the nanny is the right thing to do. I don't want to fight with DH but I want to do the right thing by DS. It's caused a huge fight with DH over the last few days as he is insisting DS remain at nursery & I just hate seeing him so upset.

Vicky1990 Because she's at work. how come nobody ever seems to ask the father this...

I’m late to the party but have to pitch in as so many people are talking about nursery likes it’s a punishment.

My DS went to nursery at one, settled in nicely but after a few weeks starting objecting - dramatically - at drop off because of separation anxiety. Sounds like your DC is prime age for that.

It’s not fun, but the nursery staff were brilliant at making drop-off short and snappy, and I’d listen outside the door and hear him calm down quickly. At pick up I could always tell he’d had a fantastic time. He did ten hour days with a 40-50 minute drive there and back, three days a week to start. No problem.

Another time we used a crèche whilst we at a wedding service, just for a couple of hours. Didn’t think much about it because he was so used to nursery by that stage. When we went to pick him up we could tell he’d been crying the whole time, it was awful.

I think you’re doing this just right. Try it out a little longer and you’ll know if it’s right for you. All children are different, all parents are different, all childcare is different. You find what works for you. Oh and they have nap time at nursery, and quiet corners, it’s not mental all day long.

I wonder too if starting at nursery has coincided with a development leap and separation anxiety has kicked in. My 2 DDs went to a childminder so I think if nursery doesn't work out you could look around again for one. My DD put her baby aged 9 months into nursery and she was fine. Maybe they need to get to know him.

My DS2 was in nursery from 6 months for 52 hours a week. He thrived, but was constantly knackered so there was no QT. IMHO if I could have afforded a nanny, I’d have gone with that.

Well this is a mixed bag on here and I was surprised by the view that nursery isn’t good for kids under 2. I personally think nursery is fab. I’d hate being at home full time and believe that the mix of adults and children really brings on development. You can see a huge difference in development, generally, between kids who have gone to nursery earlier and those that haven’t. Largely, Lisa who have attended nursery are much further on in their development - this is my personal view from observations and chatting with teachers when they have kids joint a school nursery at age 4.

My child started nursery full time (M to F, 7.45 - 18.00) from eight months old and was in the baby room. Around the same time another child of a similar age started. The nursery was fab and comforted the babies as it is a significant change, particularly as at that age I think they don’t understand that you’re coming back, but over time they know you are. My child had a few cries, but once I’d left was fine. The other child took longer and was quite upset (his mum was also really upset which I don’t think helped) but it’s now been three years and both kids are amazing.

Ultimately you have to do what’s right for you and your family. As someone else said, you could always set a deadline and that’s your cut off point. Whilst I know your child would be in three days, as you can afford a nanny I guess there’s some flexibility in finances, could you increase nursery by an extra half day or two? That way he/she has more contact time at nursery and if you’re working reduces hours you get a little time back for you during the week.

*Kids not Lisa?!!

I feel for you OP. Nothing worse than leaving your distraught child in someone else’s care. I hope you find a solution

daphine2004 - perceptions of development in early childhood are misleading. Children who have been to nursery before attending school have learned behaviours that make them, on average, better adapted to institutional settings. Hence their early adaptation to school and some of its requirements appears easier and some conclude that children who have been to nursery are better developed.

However, on other measures, such as syntax and vocabulary and fine motor skills which need to be measured in a lab setting in order to be accurate, nursery does not perform very well for children who are not from deprived homes. Longitudinal studies also suggest better academic and social skills at the end of childhood for children who have not attended institutional setttings (again, providing the children were not from deprived homes).

@daphine2004 think about it. As @user1499173618 has said, so long as not from deprived background, how could nursery be better for development than getting 1-1 attention from a primary caregiver? 1-1 attention better for speech and vocabulary than in large groups with peers of the same age. Unfortunately as care remains hugely undervalued in society, nursery workers remain underpaid and from my experience, are often young, not highly educated, and there can be a high turnover of staff within nursery settings. No comparison to the 1-1 care of a primary caregiver (factoring in socioeconomic background). Or as an alternative, a childminder in a home setting.

The language development issue is getting increased attention now that there is more data on the size of vocabulary (which correlated with development of syntax) of children starting school, and on the correlation of size of vocabulary on starting school with positive academic and social outcomes.

why isn't the OP looking after her child herself? Have we fallen through a time warp into 1954?

OP - your child will enjoy and be happy in a good childcare setting - I am very pro childcare /working mums and left my children very young (5/ 6 months) BUT - to throw in my two pence here - I would not use a nursery for such a long day.

I used a childminder (for some reason CMs get knocked on here - but it was like having another member of family for us) -

FOr a 12 hour day for a baby who is struggling with nursery it would be a no brainer for me to use the nanny. What if baby has a sniffle/ has been up teething (this happened often in the first 2 years) - you are dropping off an exhausted baby..

At least with our childminder I knew my baby was in a home environment with lots of love attention and the chance to chill out on a sofa/ be snuggled under a blanket etc

A nanny in this circumstance would mean bedtime could get started before you get home - getting home at 7pm and leaving the house at 6/630??? That is a hell of a day ...

I think for YOU (which is just as important) - you will find a nanny more helpful. You won't be waking baby to take to nursery or pick up again.

in terms of money - prioritise the situation in front of you now - nothing is as important as childcare.

Op please pay for a childminder
Nursey is not fantastic for a under to facts not my opinion

Childminder or nanny but childminders are cheaper

Also OP 12 hours is a very very long day can one of you cut down even a few hours a day

I think this is what you get (and what the op intended) when you post inappropriately in AIBU instead of the childcare section.

You can see a huge difference in development, generally, between kids who have gone to nursery earlier and those that haven’t.

As an FS teacher I would say this applies to children from families where they're not getting the interaction and stimulation they should be, but otherwise I completely agree with PP who said: it only leads to "learned behaviours that make them, on average, better adapted to institutional settings."

No way would my DD at 10 months (when I considered putting her in nursery then changed my mind) have got more out of the nursery environment than by being looked after by me. I make a big effort to regularly take her to groups where she mixes with other children so don't buy the socialising argument either.

However I can see where early nursery would benefit the child's development if they were from a family where the time/effort wasn't put into the child.

FYI my daughter attends a childmider she loves it she is rated outstanding and I know most Nurseys would struggle to get that

They do activities depending on the wether and on how the children are and it’s a much more home environment

And it’s 4:50 per hour and you only pay for the hours u use rather than session you can use your 30 hours free with them

As an FS teacher I would say this applies to children from families where they're not getting the interaction and stimulation they should be, but otherwise I completely agree with PP who said: it only leads to "learned behaviours that make them, on average, better adapted to institutional settings."
amen as somone who has worked in nurseys and also as a childminder you will find many who work in nurseys don’t even have their own children in them every word above is true a Stephen hawking is not so because they went to Nursey but because they are simply bright

A nanny is a far better option. Why put your baby through it when there is an alternative?

No way would my DD at 10 months (when I considered putting her in nursery then changed my mind) have got more out of the nursery environment than by being looked after by me. I make a big effort to regularly take her to groups where she mixes with other children so don't buy the socialising argument either.

i know people use this argument children under 3 do not play with each other rather side by side also it’s very rare for a childminder to have one child

i know people use this argument children under 3 do not play with each other rather side by side also it’s very rare for a childminder to have one child

Absolutely. There's only so much "socialising" an under 3 can developmentally achieve. Building strong and secure bonds with primary caregivers is vastly more important at such a young age.

lifeisabeachsometimes

A nanny is a far better option. Why put your baby through it when there is an alternative?

One of the reasons I would say childminder and not nanny is a few reasons if their not from a proper agancey then they can lick the basics childminders have first aid child care qualifications ect also you know with a childminder the quality is being monitored externally
And finally most childminders will have more than just one child for the social element
My childminder has 5 children during the day and more in the evening she also has an assistant

But in the main o do agree with you

Attachment and security is critical in the early years. It's worth EVERY SINGLE PENNY it might cost to have your child in a loving, familiar environment, with an individual you know and trust. I'd put vacations, dinners out, impulse purchases all on hold if it meant the difference between an in home nanny versus daycare. As a pediatrician, I can also attest to the fact that even the BEST daycare/nursery will cause your child to be sick frequently. Putting young children together is just a recipe for lots of viral sharing!

However I can see where early nursery would benefit the child's development if they were from a family where the time/effort wasn't put into the child.
this is why Nursey is often offered to looked after children people also often say things like all they do is play at childminders that is what their supposed to be doing I actually am very alarmed when I see pratctiors trying to get children under 3 to do “academic work”children learn through play

Go for the nanny, you couldn't concentrate fully at work knowing your baby was so unhappy. He's not socialising anyway if he's sobbing his heart out. Ask nanny to take him to stay and plays to make some little friends. You could always give nursery a go in a year or so once he's a bit older and used to being without you. Sounds like he's just too little for nursery yet. My niece was the same, then a year later, fine.

And totally agree with everyone who has mentioned that a toddler typically only engages in "side-by-side play," with no real developmental benefit from socialization at this age. One on one interactions with a provider in your home (with park outings, etc.) would be far more beneficial.

Also it’s not just about the long day op

It’s also about the frequent change in care giver
So you
Dh
And any number or collage students
Nursey nurses on any given day
And her rountine will be informed by what’s happening at the Nursey

were with a childminder one or two care givers and the day is informed by the child’s rountine