How upset is ok for nursery before enough is enough?

[Babysharkdoodoodoooooo]

So AIBU to think its time to say nursery isn't working..? Please be gentle- posted here for more traffic. It may seem trivial but it's caused a huge dispute between DH & I so I need some opinions before I make things worse by continuing arguing my opinion (if I'm wrong!)

Backstory, 13 month old baby has been signed up for nursery as it was the best we looked around and seemed to have nice staff. He's been for several "trial days". The first 2 were for half an hour & he seemed ok. On coming back, he was sat on the lap of one of the nursery staff playing. The third time, when I arrived, he was asleep but gasping how he does when he has gone to sleep crying (I've only ever seen him do it post vaccines previously so must have been very upset prior to falling asleep), third time DH was called to get him early because he was so upset, 4th time DH again called to collect him because he'd been crying solidly for 2 hours.

He's a very sociable baby. Has been looked after by various family members & a nanny without problems.

DH feels he will be fine & should continue going to nursery & doesn't want to pay more for a nanny. As of next week we are both back at work 2 hours from nursery so if upset, we can't get to him as we have done previously. A nanny who provided emergency childcare on a few occasions & whom he has been happy with has just had an opening & offered to take him instead but obviously as a nanny, is considerably more than nursery. DH says it is unnecessary expenditure and he just needs more time to settle. I'm not sure when enough is enough. For reference, he will be at nursery 3 days a week for 12 hours a day although thus far 2 hours is the maximum that's gone by before one of us has been called.

Am I being unreasonable? Does he just need more time to settle in at nursery? The staff say when he's gone, he just lies on the floor crying but when he is with anyone else, he is a highly sociable, happy baby. Friends are telling me the nanny is the right thing to do. I don't want to fight with DH but I want to do the right thing by DS. It's caused a huge fight with DH over the last few days as he is insisting DS remain at nursery & I just hate seeing him so upset.

So as an update- DS went to be minded by someone he knows well today. Screamed for an hour when I left him before settling. Went to nursery for another 2 hours in the afternoon, again screamed when left, settled for an hour & screamed again when he got tired. Tonight he's clung to me & screamed every time I try to set him down/give him to DH. He does have a cold so I don't know if that's what's triggered this. He's been the most sociable baby at classes until the last week. Beginning to think we are just in a clingy phase & a nanny wouldn't necessarily solve the problem.

For everyone suggesting I'm a monster for not immediately getting a nanny- have you ever tried to employ a nanny overnight? No, I didn't think so. The nanny can't start immediately hence giving him 2 weeks more in the nursery anyway which also lets us see what he does with more time.

DH has taken annual leave for the next week to stay beside the nursery all day & to give DS half days there.

Thanks to everyone who's provided useful advice. Some people are just being ridiculous. Today my days were cut to 2. But I'm sure someone will come along to tell me that working 2 days a week is ridiculous & I'm an awful parent 🙄.

@clippityclock thanks I work in a medical role hence my hours and travel so I completely get it.

nurseries offering 12 hour days does not make it wrong, or not in the child's best interests.
Fact is there is demand parents need to work & commute

Where I live there are many nannies,and my observations of that confirm I wouldn’t have a nanny
Sitting in friendship group ignoring the kids
On phone or iPad for prolonged period ignoring the kids
Smoking over the kids
My mate came home unexpectedly, found nanny sitting about with boyfriend.baby crying upstairs

OP the difference in baby classes is most likely that you are also there. Your DS feels safe to walk away from you and interact with the teacher/other children because he knows that you are there if he needs him - that’s the very definition of a secure attachment.

Clinging to your for hours after a separation is his way of showing you that he feels unsettled and insecure after your separations

*”if he need you” that should say

Feel for you OP.

I think that at this age a quieter, homely environment with a single care giver is best. So my vote is for either a childminder or nanny. A childminder might be better in a way if you’re thinking of nursery eventually since there will probably be a one or two other children there at the same time? It will also be the same price or cheaper than nursery.

I don't want to read and run, but it's still early days for him and I honestly would persist with the nursery! Once he's settled and he will do he will thrive being around other children and building relationships with more than one adult - this will help him in the future building his independence and confidence and not being solely attached to one child! My DD started nursery at 10 months so maybe a little younger and my god the screaming was awful, hearing her cry when I left and seeing her upset when I picked up was horrible!! However she's now nearly 2 and doesn't batter an eye lid and loves nursery!!!!
I also have experience of working in a nursery and especially with the younger ages and it takes time for any child to settle, the staff members are strangers this is why the settle to build bonds! He's also at that stage where he is aware of separation anxiety so it's expected to be clingy just give him lots of reassurance and don't let on your upset yourself show him your confident with this situation and this will reassure him!
Ignore anyone that says "nursery under 2 bla bla" it's a load of crap! Trust me give it time.....!!

Has your DS been allocated a key worker at nursery? Have nursery prioritised getting him familiar with her (or him) in order to help him settle?

research child minders in your local area or put out an enquiry.

I'm glad to hear no eyelids have been battered.

This sounds really tough. I found it sooo hard leaving my son at nursery in the beginning and he didn't even seem that bothered - I would have found so much crying very stressful. All the same, I know other children in the same nursery who took much longer to settle in but are very happy there now.
I'm sure all children are different, but by 18 months my son was loving having peers and played with them, and was super happy to see them whenever we ran into them out and about. That would put me off using a nanny (as well as the cost) - although up to age 2 it might make sense for longer days perhaps.
A nanny share might be a good compromise?

@petrolpump28 as I said, I did this last year & was not comfortable leaving DS with anyone we met with. Only a couple were willing to provide the hours needed & I just didn't get a good vibe from them. A few were brilliant but just couldn't do the hours/lived too far away for it to work. I then looked into nurseries & looked at many before deciding on the one we've chosen. I really didn't just pick the first nursery I found. I researched options for months.

He’ll be fine honestly. His cold could be making him clingy, teeth coming through etc etc.
My son also used to stay 2 nights and 2 days with my mum because picking him up in between was destroying me. He’s still a bright sociable boy that hasn’t showed any psychopathic signs yet.

His only problem is he’s too much like me and hates being told no 😂😂😂
Return to work, don’t feel guilty or judged. He’s going to be fine.

Ok so based on your update it does sound like he’s going through an upset phase (could be developmental or illness or teething or a combination!)

Was it your choice to go down to 2 days or would have preferred to stick to 3? Sorry if it was the latter.

Is there any option for your DH to work from home on the days you’re at work, at least to begin with, so he can be closer if needed? Or is it not that kind of job?

Also to add my reasons:

I personally feel that nursery is a very artificial environment which is overwhelming and uncomfortable for a very young child - too bright, noisy and overcrowded. Too many new faces to get used to trapped in a small space. The staff, though polite, often just stand around watching the children unless it becomes apparent that they need help with something (from what I’ve observed anyway - appreciate that my experience is very limited). The children spend most of the day in one room other than to go out into the garden area. The staff are unable to adapt to the children’s specific needs in certain areas due to the artificial nature of the environment ie cannot just take them for a walk down the shops or park or rock them to sleep in pram.

Obviously if there is no other choice of childcare then you have to continue with the nursery. I don’t think that nursery damages children after all it’s not a neglectful environment. But I do think that it’s really the option for those who have no other option. And do have another choice. You can hire a nanny or childminder as you have acknowledged that you have the money to do so. I appreciate that it may take some time to find a nanny or childminder and you are saving for IVF. However, I think that you need to look at this as finding a long term childcare arrangement and perhaps you could look at cut backs in other areas? Or you could go back up to three days a week and save the extra money you earn? If your IVF is successful you will probably have to hire a nanny anyway because surely two children in nursery will cost about the same as a nanny?

You mentioned that your child won’t settle for anyone now. Could this be because nursery has rattled them to the point of insecurity? You are clearly a very well educated and intelligent woman. However I think that this issue calls for you to listen to your heart, not your head. Given your husband’s objections, the fact that you felt compelled to seek advice in the first place shows that your heart is telling you to search for alternative childcare.

My two pence is that firstly it depends a lot on the child. My child was very confident socially IF he had someone with him he was very comfortable with and if it wasn't over stimulating. I think at 1 year old he would have struggled at nursery (he would have probably acclimatised but it wouldn't have been good for him). By 2.5-3 years old he was more able to cope with noise and lack of familiar faces and could happily stay in his lovely nursery all day. Other children are different and much more tolerant of noise and commotion at an earlier age.

how can anybody actually think this is a good idea?

It can be very hard balancing childcare and a career, no denying that.

The childminders didn't want to do a 12 hour day with good reason.

I'm sorry but if this was somebody lower down the pecking order who was taking a baby to a stimulating, unpredictable environment for 12 hours, people would be asking questions.
The baby is woken, taken to nursery for longer than adults work . Its just not ok. Especially if funds are available for an alternative.

@petrolpump28 actually most childminders I spoke to were happy to offer 11/12 hour days. One has recently told me that her standard days are 7-7. The problem is that I am very limited with travelling. I live in a very small village so I'd have to drive in the opposite direction from work to get to the nearest town so I'd then need even longer hours as that would add on another half an hour.

How will you be able to do your job while worrying constantly about your baby being upset and two hours away? Returning to work is hard enough without that. For both your sake and the baby's I would go for the nanny, for the time being at least, and if the money is too much long term then look for a childminder instead of the nursery. My son wouldn't settle in nursery school at 2 and a half and the nursery school said after two weeks to give up and not traumatise him. I took him out and nine months later he walked back into the same nursery, gave me a cheery wave and disappeared. Your baby and your instinct are both telling you this is not the right setting for him. Tell your husband firmly that you know in your heart that this isn't right for your baby and as a mum you need to be confident when you go back to work that your baby is safe and happy. I know it's hard, but it sounds like you know what is best and you should stand your ground.

Well done on ignoring the bad and taking on the good. Most settings near here limit to 10 hours but that is for full time. The colds and sick bugs were every month for the first year so factor in how you will deal with that- will you share with DH equally? Nurseries have to exclude for common ills whereas a nanny can cope with mild fevers etc... Are nursery aware it will take you 2 hours to collect? Check their policy as some places report you over an hour. Check late fees and procedure too you are bound to be delayed at some point. I think you must go with your gut, ours never settled at one place and loved another (cheaper, less fancy but full of kind staff), sometimes they do improve sometimes they just hate a place- adults don't love everyone they meet and kids don't either. Also make use of skype etc to keep in contact, daily diary it makes a difference.

My DS started with a child minder from 12 months, for 4 days a week and One day a week in a local nursery. He adored being with his child minder who lived in the road next to us, then went on to start primary school with her daughter. We still keep in contact. The nursery was adequate,he was at each setting 10 hrs a day. He really thrived with his child minder and benefitted a lot from being looked after by someone who had worked in education for years, had 4 children and had decided to stay at home to work until her littlest had grown up. I had to go back to work and agonised over it but he was well looked after. It can take a while to settle in, if it's not working can always change to a closer nursery or nanny/ childminder.

Oh, OP. I had endless sympathy for you. But I'm getting the feeling that you posted just to garner support for your apparent conviction (based on what?) that nursery is the answer.

I was a SAHM for endless years, after many years of professional training. I had no idea that I would end up divorced, poor, and with useless qualifications. So I do get the whole thing. I would advise my DC (male and female) to have jobs which also enable them to look after their children and return to work.

From this perspective, years on, I applaud and entirely support your need/want to work. However, I can't support/applaud this being at the expense of your child. You can afford a nanny. WTF don't you just do this, then??? I also understand your desire to 'save up' for a potential second child. But what if your DS is your only child? Why on Earth wouldn't you give up the universe for him before he starts school? This is bonkers thinking...

In short: you are fortunate enough to have choices. Please, please, please choose to use a nanny. I am evidently over-invested in this, having spent many years at home with small children, thereby making myself unemployable, but please.

Lots of wise thoughts and advice on here,OP, but the one giving you the clearest message is your baby son. His clinging and fretfulness is a sign of insecurity as he must be rather bewildered and confused. Some babies settle at nursery without problems, others never really do. It's not his fault or your fault but he needs a consistent, caring routine which suits him,if he's to thrive.

Your DH has to prioritise his son's emotional well being above everything else.

Why are you not looking after your child yourself ?.