How upset is ok for nursery before enough is enough?

[Babysharkdoodoodoooooo]

So AIBU to think its time to say nursery isn't working..? Please be gentle- posted here for more traffic. It may seem trivial but it's caused a huge dispute between DH & I so I need some opinions before I make things worse by continuing arguing my opinion (if I'm wrong!)

Backstory, 13 month old baby has been signed up for nursery as it was the best we looked around and seemed to have nice staff. He's been for several "trial days". The first 2 were for half an hour & he seemed ok. On coming back, he was sat on the lap of one of the nursery staff playing. The third time, when I arrived, he was asleep but gasping how he does when he has gone to sleep crying (I've only ever seen him do it post vaccines previously so must have been very upset prior to falling asleep), third time DH was called to get him early because he was so upset, 4th time DH again called to collect him because he'd been crying solidly for 2 hours.

He's a very sociable baby. Has been looked after by various family members & a nanny without problems.

DH feels he will be fine & should continue going to nursery & doesn't want to pay more for a nanny. As of next week we are both back at work 2 hours from nursery so if upset, we can't get to him as we have done previously. A nanny who provided emergency childcare on a few occasions & whom he has been happy with has just had an opening & offered to take him instead but obviously as a nanny, is considerably more than nursery. DH says it is unnecessary expenditure and he just needs more time to settle. I'm not sure when enough is enough. For reference, he will be at nursery 3 days a week for 12 hours a day although thus far 2 hours is the maximum that's gone by before one of us has been called.

Am I being unreasonable? Does he just need more time to settle in at nursery? The staff say when he's gone, he just lies on the floor crying but when he is with anyone else, he is a highly sociable, happy baby. Friends are telling me the nanny is the right thing to do. I don't want to fight with DH but I want to do the right thing by DS. It's caused a huge fight with DH over the last few days as he is insisting DS remain at nursery & I just hate seeing him so upset.

Sorry I haven't read through the thread so may be repeating others suggestions. Recently had my one year old DD start nursery so I know how stressful and upsetting it can be.
The nursery we decided on had an 8 week settling in period (one of the reasons we chose it). We often selected days it was most quiet so DD could have as much time with her key worker as possible. Even so right up to the end of the 8 weeks I was getting concerned as I thought she would be more settled than she was. She actually seemed to improve a lot more when she properly started and did her full 9 hour day. So I would say it really takes about 3 months to feel like they are somewhat settled. DD still has her up and downs.
I think it depends how you feel the nursery is responding. My nursery has been great, they are always honest but positive and seem to have an action plan. It is also I must add the most expensive (by far) nursery in my area and when viewing other nursery's I did feel in most cases the price was reflective of the standards.
From what I have read I'm not sure if you are really happy with the nursery or how they are handling your DS. Is there no other nursery maybe abit further or along your commute that you haven't viewed?
I got told to go with my gut instinct. For me it was always the nursery we chose. We did discuss other nursery's as they were a lot cheaper and for all I know could have work out great. But my gut told me this nursery.'
Maybe carry on for a couple more weeks with nursery but at the same time start looking for possible nanny's/other nursery's just to get an idea?

Not rtft only the OPs comments but for me if I could afford a nanny or a childminder instead of nursery from age 1-3 years it would be a no brainier for me. Especially if my baby was that unsettled.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/02/nurseries-childcare-pre-school-cortisol

As an ex Nursery Practitioner, I would use a nanny. 12 hrs is a very long time for a little one to be left, no matter how good the nursery.

Ahh kerching, there it is the flawed cortisol study.as I predicted up it pop
Are you also going to relate the flawed methodology and analysis?
There has been no good qualitative or quantitative research to prove nursery is detrimental
Plenty iffy and non robust data out there,and anecdotal rubbish
But no robust evidence nursery is detrimental

I think it's awful that you're essentially working to save up for baby number 2, at the detriment of baby number 1! Ffs get a grip. He's a BABY, he's not fucking walking and talking yet, and you're emotionally damaging him leaving him in a place to cry.
12 hour days, why the fuck did you have him in the first place?
It's cruel. And you know it's cruel. But no doubt you'll go your own merry way and leave the poor might in a place where he evidently doesn't feel safe.

And you can have a " good chuckle" at my response.
Deep down you know what you're doing is wrong. Your husband sounds like a cruel dick too.

Oh I say,kerching! double whammy why the fuck did you have him in the first place?
All we need now to complete cliche top trumps is why have children to leave em with strangers all day

Lipstick that link is not just one cortisol study - it’s a good balanced summary of lots of the research around nursery for the under 3s, did you actually read it or just comment on the name of the link?

Anyway, I always see you robustly (to be polite) arguing a very pro-nursery stance on these threads... there is actually quite a lot of good quality long term research on the potential negative affects of nursery for under 3s. I doubt you would ever read it objectively though

Liostick - are you aware of the longitudinal Austrian research into outcomes at 15 for children whose mothers spent an extra year with them at home as toddlers? It’s quite compelling.

he'll be fine. my ds (at 13mo) cried so much nursery called and asked if i'd like to come and get him - twice! he cried every bloody time he went for about 2 months on and off throughout the morning. he's now about 3 months in and he loves it! he makes me put him sown as soon as we get in. he still cried when i go to leave and as soon as he sees me when i collector but all the rest of the time he has a great time!

sorry not ant nursery but why is he crying when you drop him off and pick him up if its so great?

anti

sorry but having re read that you have a considerable amount of money in savings but choose to continue with this seems rather unfortunate.

Of course the nursery will nod and smile. They want your fees.

Lipstick I am always staunchly pro-working parent but this is not ok!

What is the point in having their baby miserable so they can use their money to have another miserable baby?

Literally, what is the point??

I don’t understand why you are continuing with the nursery when you know that you have a good nanny available. Surely it would be better for DS to start adjusting to a new routine while he gets used to the nanny instead of nursery. The increased cost may mean sacrificing a few luxuries (even delaying having a second child for a while) but surely that must be worth doing for your baby’s well-being.

You know in your heart what is the right thing for your baby. If you can afford the nanny, then don't think twice.

Single mum.
My two are 8 and 5.
I’m goinf to haemorrhage money on a nanny because i want them in their own environment in pre and post school.

Suffice to say, if I had a baby same age as yours and in your financial position - I would not even consider a nursery for a nano second

OP, I tried my DC1 with a nursery because I thought a bit of variety might be good for him (he was well into the twos at the time). He absolutely hated it, and screamed the place down. We tried the cheerful drop-offs etc, but he still screamed the place down. Eventually the nursery staff said that we should withdraw him. They said he would eventually get used to it if we persisted for long enough, because all children do settle in the end - but as there was no reason for us to be sending him (I was a SAHM, and was very happy to have my DC at home), it was foolish (in their view) to persist just for the sake of it, and that we could try again when he was a bit older. They waived the fees, too.

We did try when he was three, for two mornings per week. Even then, he found it hard. I stayed with him at first (nursery was happy with this), then built up to 'going to buy some bread and milk', then leaving him there for longer periods. By then, I had another toddler too, and it gave me a couple of hours twice a week just with him, which I think he benefited from.

The nursery/pre-school mine went to was absolutely fantastic. But If I had had to go to work when mine were 13 months old, and could have afforded to choose, I would have chosen a nanny a thousand times over to look after mine.

12 hours x3 days?! I don’t even understand how that is possible in a nursery. Absolutely no way is it reasonable- if you can afford a nanny use one, both of you two hours away? That seems unfair on your child as well- what if he needs picking up when he is ill? Your plans sounds bonkers! You at least need a nursery closer to work or someone who can be there incase of illness or emergency in less than 2 hours.

When my babies were small I’d have persevered and said they’d get used to it and it would all be fine.
Now they’re 13 and 10, with hindsight, I’d have done something different.

My daughter was like that in the first nursery we tried. Completely fine in the second one. Much nicer, very happy there, no concerns. For me if they are crying for more than 5-10 minutes inconsolable and undistractable thats too much. Personally if you can afford/mentally cope with being at home (i can’t) or a nanny (we do because its substantially cheaper than three in nursery) then do one of those- seems intuitively better than nursery, but regardless of which option for childcare suits your whole family best, not all nurseries/nannies/childminders are equal. And the research bandied about upthread was for FULL TIME nursery not three days a week.

Are you able to take any longer to settle him in, ie take annual leave to shorten the days.
My daughter didn’t like her settling in. I was called as she was upset. Then the second time she cried they said it’s ok they tend to stop when Mom leaves & when I came back 1 hour later she hadn’t stopped. This happened for a few times & i got a call one day saying as she was happy could I leave her there a bit longer. She has been ok since this time & really enjoys it. Waves me off in the morning, rarely cries.
Of course at some point enough is enough (I don’t know when that would be?)

It's probably a bit early to give up and most children cry at first when they're dropped off (which is not nice for anyone but of course lots of parents need to work wheb their children are at school) but I think I'd look for a nice childminder. I was incredibly lucky with mine.
Failing that then a nanny till he is a bit older. Maybe invest in a nanny for 12 months to give you peace of mind.

Doh... need to work when their children are small

I would go with the nanny personally. Most parents don’t know this, so I’m not knocking at you, but around a Year is the worst time to start sending to childcare as at that point children seem to become super aware of their connection to Mum and Dad. I know this from ten years of childminding. If you know that your child is happy with this nanny it might be worth sending him to her instead? You could do a couple of trial days with her and see how he goes? If he’s the same then that would be one conversation but if he’s happier that would be quite another...I do know that nurseries tend to be less flexible than nannies and childminders. Good Luck!