How upset is ok for nursery before enough is enough?

[Babysharkdoodoodoooooo]

So AIBU to think its time to say nursery isn't working..? Please be gentle- posted here for more traffic. It may seem trivial but it's caused a huge dispute between DH & I so I need some opinions before I make things worse by continuing arguing my opinion (if I'm wrong!)

Backstory, 13 month old baby has been signed up for nursery as it was the best we looked around and seemed to have nice staff. He's been for several "trial days". The first 2 were for half an hour & he seemed ok. On coming back, he was sat on the lap of one of the nursery staff playing. The third time, when I arrived, he was asleep but gasping how he does when he has gone to sleep crying (I've only ever seen him do it post vaccines previously so must have been very upset prior to falling asleep), third time DH was called to get him early because he was so upset, 4th time DH again called to collect him because he'd been crying solidly for 2 hours.

He's a very sociable baby. Has been looked after by various family members & a nanny without problems.

DH feels he will be fine & should continue going to nursery & doesn't want to pay more for a nanny. As of next week we are both back at work 2 hours from nursery so if upset, we can't get to him as we have done previously. A nanny who provided emergency childcare on a few occasions & whom he has been happy with has just had an opening & offered to take him instead but obviously as a nanny, is considerably more than nursery. DH says it is unnecessary expenditure and he just needs more time to settle. I'm not sure when enough is enough. For reference, he will be at nursery 3 days a week for 12 hours a day although thus far 2 hours is the maximum that's gone by before one of us has been called.

Am I being unreasonable? Does he just need more time to settle in at nursery? The staff say when he's gone, he just lies on the floor crying but when he is with anyone else, he is a highly sociable, happy baby. Friends are telling me the nanny is the right thing to do. I don't want to fight with DH but I want to do the right thing by DS. It's caused a huge fight with DH over the last few days as he is insisting DS remain at nursery & I just hate seeing him so upset.

The thing that I am very uncomfortable about is the fact your DH found your ds in a bouncer crying when he came in.
First of all, a bouncer for a toddler is crazy. It might be a good to restrict him but who wants to restricts a crying/distressed baby???
Second, he was left crying on his own. When my two when they were at nursery. They both had a key worker who would have cuddled them. They would have tried to distract him etc... but he would never been have left alone like this. I would question their ability to settle a toddler as well as what sort of ‘looking after’ they do whe things go wrong (aka in general, if a child is a bit of the weather, how do they handle the child etc...)

So for me, this points out to two big red flags, something I wouldn’t be happy about.

Finally, I would also wonder how these first few times with them, when he didn’t settle at all, has now tainted their view of his him as a toddler. Aka a difficult child who is crying all the time.

I would really stay clear.

My son took ages to settle. He was 8 months when he started and is now almost 14. He didn't settle at the settle sessions and took a good couple of weeks full time for him to find his feet and enjoy it. He's thriving there and it's the best decision for us as a family but of course every child is different. I hope things settle down for you all, whichever route you take.

The quality of nursery care is highly variable and the suitability of nursery care is not a given for any child. Nurseries are busy places and sensitive children may find them overwhelming and distressing. It is perfectly possible to be sociable but also sensitive and to need a lot of peace and quiet in order to develop.

When I first went back to work dd was 8 months old (ds was in school) .
I taught part time so 8 till 12.30. I wanted one to one and a friend, who knew dd, was just starting as cm. I paid her half my salary because I felt that the care of my child was at at least as important as my working. Dh was in the early stages of the illness which caused his premature death some years later so I couldn’t take too long a break. I knew I would be breadwinner one day.

I would recommend the nanny for you every time..you can afford it so you should.

I really don’t understand you. You’ve come on here to ask advice, 90% of people have said you need a nanny or 1 to 1 care given the situation. You have completely ignored this advice. Why? Because of money! Even though you’ve said you can afford it. Why wouldn’t you do the very best for your child if you can afford it? I just don’t get it at all

But alot of people have also said to perserve as their children took a while to settle.

I am in a similar situation to you op. Dd 11 months. Has had 2 settle sessions and cried the whole time..the girls have been wonderful and she would calm down when distracted but would be set off by the door opening. We have another before she starts next week. However it will be at a different time so it might be she was tired (sessions were around nap time) from reading comments on here i am.going to keep sending her for a few more weeks..she has 2 full days before I go back to work so I can easily be there if she is really unsettled . From what the nursery staff all said though that it isn't unusual as it's all a new setting, smells, sounds etc and they need time to understand that it's ok to be there. My dd is very sociable and inquisitive so we know nursery wpo

*will be good for her

crispy I think it’s not the OP who has a money issue but her DH.
Hence trying to compromise to trying a few more time and then using the nanny.

To all of you saying he's not a tiny baby...he really is!
When your children are grown adults you see a 13 month old baby as a tiny tot. My grandson is a year old and he's still a baby.

When you are the parent of a year old baby they may seem 'grown up' compared to a newborn but they're still just a little baby.

OP, I have just re-read your OP. In the nicest possible way, I'm not quite sure why you posted it as you have, it seems, already decided to prioritise deferring to your DH and his financial arguments over what you might believe is best for your DS.

There are red flags with this nursery. ("he had trial sessions about 6 weeks ago & was fine although the sessions were only half an hour, the nursery then said they couldn't do any more until now": this suggests that this particular nursery isn't that bothered about an individual child's needs - perhaps another one might be?; also the fact that he doesn't know his key worker). Plus your DH has already been asked to collect him early, twice. This suggests they can't really be doing with a child who might need more attention than they are able to give.

I can see that it would be financially ridiculous to be paying for two lots of childcare. But sometimes you just have to write off the money (if you can afford to, without doing without the essentials) in order to get your child into the right setting (I have done this, several times).

I also wonder about boredom. I think a 13 mo who's with a one-to-one caregiver is less likely to be bored than one who spends all day in one space (nursery) with only occasional variety. A trip to the library/park/shops with someone who talks exclusively to him and is focussed on him is surely more stimulating/interesting? Your son is evidently already articulate, engaged and securely attached; I am sure you must realise that this has come about because he has had so much one-to-one time with you.

Op I agree 12 hours a day is just too long. My ds started nursery at 15 months even though I'm a sahm. But he is only there for 5 hours a day. Which works out brilliant for us, he has the right stimulation and social aspect and I have 5 hours for myself.
My ds cried for 3 weeks straight and this is the usual settling in period. I also considered taking him out as it was heartbreaking knowing he was crying.
BUT I am so glad I didnt as I can see how he is thriving now. However he is on a much shorter day.

In your situation I would consider the nanny as it's too long a day and you both are too far away in an emergency. Remind your dh that it's only going to cost a little extra for a short time.

BrexitWife

I understand that, but to me it’s the same difference. I would tell my husband to go and fuck himself before I let him decide to give our child less than what we can afford!

I always think it's useful in these circumstances to imagine that instead of a child's experiences that it's a friend talking to you about their experience and asking you for advice. E.g. my dp made me go to this place today, he left me there and I didn't know anyone, they all spoke a different language so they couldn't understand me. I was really scared, I had no idea what time it was or if he would be coming back for me and I was trapped, they wouldn't let me leave. I don't know if I'm going back there - what do I do? You can then think honestly about what your advice would be to your friend, and how you feel about what her DP is doing (you), without our cultural influence on how children should be treated. If your advice to your friend is 'suck it up love' then you have your answer if your advice is 'leave the monster' then at least you will know what you really feel about it and can then make decisions accordingly. No judgement as each family need to decide what works best for them - but make the decision with your eyes properly open, rather than through the veil of our specific culture and then you will have no regrets as you will know that you made the best decision you could at the time! Good luck, xx

Wtf, mummy?! I'd also tell a woman to leave a husband who told her when to go to bed, who insisted on bathing her when she said she wasn't dirty, and who chose what she ate each day. Because treating adults like children is abusive. That doesn't mean treating children like children is abusive. Plus your 'neutral' way of looking at it is very biased - you could do a similar thing with a SAHM as a controlling husband who won't let his wife go anywhere without him, if you wanted to be equally silly but in the other direction.

OP you have my deepest sympathy and you are obviously doing the best you can in a difficult situation - the course you’ve chosen sounds really sensible and it’s great that you’ve got a back up (nanny) if things don’t work out at nursery.

I don’t think badly of people who put their children in nursery at any age - of COURSE the vast majority of parents only want the best for their children and are trying desperately hard to be the best parents they can be. What I do feel gloomy about is a society where parents don’t have the choice and are forced to put their very little children into childcare. I’m not anti working anyone, or anti nursery per se, but unless you are a parent who is not able to parent very well for whatever reason, your under three-year-old is better off with you than they would be at nursery (with a close relative a close second, followed by a nanny). Yes, things have moved on from Bowlby, but read anything on child development and it’ll confirm this. Society should therefore be structured to allow at least one parent to spend at least the majority of their time with their child until the child is three.

I also feel that the refusal of men to step up and take over 50% of the responsibility for the domestic sphere has meant that childcare is still seen as a woman’s responsibility and if the woman works, the children suffer because the man more often than not doesn’t step up. Nice one, patriarchy.

My boys were at a nursery I'd looked round at thought was lovely. They were a bit older (just 3). Settling went well and we got great handovers. Then one of them started to get hysterical at the idea of going. He'd be in tears on arrival and they'd cuddle him and talk to him about what they'd be doing. One day a particular member of staff was on her own in the room at drop off. All cuddly & nice until the internal door shut behind them. I was signing the register when I heard her shouting 'SHUT UP! YOU NEED TO SHUT UP NOW! JUST SHUT UP!' over and over. In shock, I made the wrong call and went to work but moved them sharpish.

I know there is a huge variation in nurseries. I know several nursery staff and if a child was that upset there would be a key worker cuddling him, reassuring him and building a relationship. One spent weeks almost always carrying a particular child to help them settle. Which made life easier long term because they had a room full of happy settled babies.

Can you find a nursery close to your work?

Winegal

OP has already explained why she doesn’t want to do this.

OP 12 hours is way too long between a mixture of people who have all different ways of interacting and comforting a small toddler. He must feel overwhelmed. However with time as he is a sociable baby I’m sure he will settle down. Your husband is right, paying more doesn’t make sense if you are confident your baby is as sociable as you say, he just needs time to adjust and will be fine in the long run. You could compromise and give it a full week at the nursery before making any decisions and pray the nanny still has an opening if matters continue as they are.

My DS took 6 weeks to settle in the nursery but 12 hours is a long time in my humble opinion

Omg LITTLETABBY that sounds so bad but unfortunately as much as private nurseries boast about how professional fhey are. Unfortunately there are some who don’t really care. It’s just a business for them. Usually a happy and content child would be evident the nursery is a happy place to be. My sister has her DD in a private nursery and has said at times when she has been late dropping her off she has seen the staff standing around gossiping instead of interacting with the children. She has seen kids sitting there on their own crying for their parents or just looking lost and upset and walking around whimpering after drop of and none of the staff are comforting the kids. As opposed to when she turns up on time they are all sitting around in a circle singing the welcome song or engaging with the kids, once she asked and was told they don’t want the upset child to become clingy or expect special treatment and needs to accept in their own time and get used to it so they just leave them to it. My sister said she felt so sorry for those kids but couldn’t interfere or intervene because it’s not her place plus her DD runs off and plays by herself so she didn’t have any grounds to complain.

Not read the full thread but is a childminder an option?

I wouldn't pay the termination fee for the nursery if my child wasn't settling. That's bonkers and an unfair term, there must be provision for settling in and being able to terminate on a shorter notice period.

it's different if they've been there for 6 months and you decide it's not working, but if they've just been doing settling in, you should be able to walk away.

For people saying you shouldn't be 2 hours away from the nursery- this is a reality for lots of people.
We are approx 1.5 hours (traffic/ trains dependent) away as we both have to commute in opposite directions for work.
Dd goes to nursery 3 days per week (10 hour days) for the past 2 years - we haven't been called to collect her early once. Every child is different.
I trust the nursery. If she had an accident and needed A&E, they would get her there immediately, regardless of whether i was 10 mins away or 2 hours.

Is a second child part of the grand scheme? A nanny will become less of a 'big spend' when you have childcare cost for two to meet.

This happened to my DD at the same age. A happy baby, been left with a few people quite happily.
I looked round quite a few nurseries before we found the one we preferred. We liked the key worker, everything looked good.
We pulled her out after 3 days. The one thing that really sticks in my head is where I caught her crying in a way I'd never seen before. I could hear her as I walked up to the nursery front door. She had a serious fear of travel cots for months afterwards where she'd never had a problem with one before.
Her behaviour was super clingy towards me after we pulled her out. She didn't want Daddy like she normally would, she just wanted me! She was like a different baby.

Thankfully, my sister in law offered to have her and, although she didn't know her that we'll, she settled in really well, no problems. A year later, she went to another childminder with her 1 year old brother and again both settled fine.
I know that removing her from that nursery was the right thing to do. She told us in her own way.
Trust your instincts. If something feels 'off' then it probably is!