Four women viciously attack a defenceless man ...

[loveyouradvice]

www.lbc.co.uk/news/crime-caught-camera/tube-horror-women-man-attack-leicester-square/

Not in my name

I am shaking with anger and horror here... an utterly vicious and horrid attack on all levels.... the ferocity was shocking.

For it then to be attributed to women when they are clearly male is so very shocking on so very many levels......

This has gone too far..... How have the police ever agreed to count crimes committed by males as crimes committed by women, just on the say so of the male committing the crime?

I knew this was happening but I hadn't realised that anyone could "self-id" as female to the police.... How has this happened?

I wonder if the victim will be forced to call his attackers 'she' if it gets to court?
Mthe precedence was already set when a 5ft 60yr old woman was reprimanded and forced by a judge to refer to her 26yr old 6ft male attacker as “she/her” etc in court.

I imagine rape and sexual abuse/dv victims and child abuse victims will be held to the same standard - having to call their rapist/abuser by their new female name an referring to them as a woman

Yes that’s true four men attack a man at a tube station doesn’t create much interest

four woman attack a man does no one can miss the fact once they have seen the video they are men dressed as women

But some have stupidly ignored that and just read the headline to them it’s further proof that women are as violent as men

the precedence was already set when a 5ft 60yr old woman was reprimanded and forced by a judge to refer to her 26yr old 6ft male attacker as “she/her” etc in court.

This refers to the assault by T Wolf on Maria Maclachlan, discussed below.

Helen Lewis in New Statesman:
"You would have thought that a feminist getting punched in the face would be reasonably large news – particularly if her attacker had boasted online earlier of wanting to “fuck up” some feminists, comparing them to fascists. But the conviction of the person who attacked 60-year-old Maria MacLachlan at Speakers’ Corner last year didn’t trouble the pages of the Guardian, where I would normally expect to hear about something that veers close to being a hate crime, or the LGBT website Pink News. Why? A clue comes in the fact that MacLachlan was slapped by a 26-year-old transgender woman called Tara Wolf, who explained to the court that MacLachlan was a “TERF” – a term commonly used to stand for “trans exclusionary radical feminist”, ie one who doesn’t believe that trans women are “real” women, but which Wolf defined as a “trans exterminatory radical feminist”.

The implication was that MacLachlan, now 61, wants all transgender people dead – something that seems absolutely barking until you realise this is quite a common accusation in activist spaces. The feminist group Sisters Uncut, which has done great work protesting the closure of domestic violence services, somehow looked at the case and decided that Wolf was the real victim. It used a hashtag – #freetheshewolf – and called for a protest outside Hendon Magistrates’ Court, asking for support for a “trans woman targeted… and harassed by TERFs, transmisogynists and cops”, adding: “Attacks on trans lives will not be tolerated.” (continues)

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old?

I wonder if the victim will be forced to call his attackers 'she' if it gets to court?

No, once he is on the witness stand he can say anything he likes. It's absolute privilege.

If they self-identify as not guilty, do the police just let them go? Presumably not.

Seems like the justice system must take people's word for something that is scientifically impossible (that they've changed sex) but then not take their word for it with other things? Which are actually possible?

What a world we live in.

I'd spend my life in jail rather than call my male attacker 'she/her'. That would be the one advantage of being infertile and having no children to think of on the outside. I will happily die on the hill of sanity and reason.

As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to use the pronouns a trans person does not prefer.

Disgusting attack. No way should this be recorded as four women attacking a man. I’m genuinely fearful for the future of our country under this self-identity transgender nonsense.

As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to use the pronouns a trans person does not prefer.

Depends on when you live it certainly is illegal. And as discussed- it cost the small 60 yr old woman who was attacked from possibly getting full justice.

Some judges will just love a chance to put a feminist in her place.

Depends on when you live it certainly is illegal. And as discussed- it cost the small 60 yr old woman who was attacked from possibly getting full justice.

How can it be regional? Or do you mean depending on the country?

I've looked at a few reports of the Tara Wolfe/Maria MacLachlan story (which is what I assume people are referring to) and I can't see anywhere where Maria was forced to call her attacker a woman in court? Although several reports are refusing to open for me for some reason. Could someone link me?

If it's true, I'd be very interested to hear from any legal experts who can tell me what this means for absolute privilege.

AynRandTheObjectivis

Maria Machlachlan was directed by the judge to use the preferred pronouns of her attacker.
Interview with her here about the assault, trial and consequences:

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/06/21/interview-maria-maclauchlan-gra-aftermath-assault-speakers-corner/

Deliberate misgendering is included within Hate Crime policy /legislation.

Something's up with my computer tonight, nothing is opening. I'll check it when I can. Thank you though.

Ayn

Telegraph link

District Judge Kenneth Grant warned Ms MacLachlan to refer to Miss Wolf as “she” while giving evidence.

He said: "The defendant wished to be referred to as a woman, so perhaps you could refer to her as 'she' for the purpose of the proceedings."

I don't think this would have even made the news if it had actually been men doing the stomping.

A working link, thanks.

That's not great, but it doesn't look as though the judge forced her to refer to Wolf as a woman? More he asked er to, and she refused in her response about 'this person who is a male'?

Judges are often smarter than they seem, and it might be - might be - that the judge was trying to protect Maria against any accusations that might cause prejudice against her case? I think they also do have to do everything they can to demonstrate that there's no court prejudice against the defendant. Otherwise Wolf might come back after a conviction and claim the judge was transphobic.

I don't know.

AynRandTheObjectivist

Perhaps wait til you've read some of the reports and Maria's statements before being so dismissive. She was told by the judge to refer to her assailant as a woman, and compensation was reduced to reflect the fact she refused.

The judge refused Maria Maclachlan compensation based on her not referring to her attacker as she.

"It was notable that when I asked Ms Maclachlan to refer to Ms Wolf as 'she', she did so with bad grace - having asked her to do so she continued to refer to Ms Wolf as 'he' and 'him'".

Standard link

So no, the judge didn't force Maria Maclachlan to refer to her attacker as female. But punished Maria Maclachlan for not doing so.

The government proposes to amend the law to allow people to self-identify as men or women, and to stop allowing organisations in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite birth sex. We call for women to be consulted.

link to petition here

Upstart, I don't think Ayn is being dismissive.

Just confused like we all are.

I wonder if someone can commit a crime as Joe Bloggs (male) and then be convicted as Tiffany Brooks (female)?

I honestly don't know.

I wonder if someone can commit a crime as Joe Bloggs (male) and then be convicted as Tiffany Brooks (female)?

Popchyk I think you'll find UK examples here: transcrimeuk.com

I wonder if a woman was jumping up and down on the roof of a car whether it would be seen as celebratory foolishness.

I despair.
How can anyone think that this is helpful reporting?

A trans woman normally makes a hell of an effort (and can often pass as a woman)

You're out of touch, that's not true at all. Many transwomen these days to exactly look like men in dresses. Most don't pass as women, not matter how much effort they make.

Voice0fReason

My understanding is that reporting guidelines have been imposed.