To have not realised that Cuba is in the Caribbean?

[MeMyShelfandIkea]

Watching Blind Date tonight and one of the couples is on their date in Cuba. I commented to DH did he ever fancy visiting somewhere like that? He said what, the Caribbean? I said no, South America. DH then informs me that Cuba is a Caribbean island and despite showing me on the map I still can't get my head around it!

Tell me I'm not the only one whose geographical knowledge is hopeless

I personally think we could do with a bit more Chartists in school history lessons. We’re having an entire year of saturation coverage of the centenary of older women with property getting the right to vote, (and, just to be absolutely clear, I don’t begrudge a single minute of it) but at no point have I heard a dicky bird about the centenary of all working class men getting the right to vote - the first of the causes for which the Chartists fought and died. Surely the principle that you should be able to vote regardless of wealth is an important one?

Just for the record, Graphista, I'm quite well aware that World War 2 was not just fought in Europe. The clue's in the name and all that?

The point I was making was there was actual bombing and death right in the middle of Britain. It was a bit more of an immediate experience to the population of the UK than far off fighting in Africa.

Not sure how I am "smug" but I think that comment says more about you than about me.

One of my GF spent WW2 driving a supply truck across the North African desert, while the other one was in Burma (as was). The northerners always seemed to get sent to the worst places

So yes, I knew it extended a bit further than France

As I already said if I was wrong I apologise.

But I stand by nobody knows everything, one person may know loads on WWII another might know more on the rise of communism in China, or what led to it being too easy to use and export people from Africa as slaves.

I do like who do you think you are? Making history more accessible, I like shows like 'back in time for tea' too. But I also like history documentaries generally and can easily disappear down a google wormhole looking up various events or significant figures in history.

* You're right that's important thomas* - probably quite a lot of people don't realise that until 1918 not all men had the vote. I have seen quite a few mentions of that alongside the pieces on women's suffrage - along, of course with the fact that while all men over 21 were enfranchised then, only women aged 30 and over who owned property with a rateable value above £5, or whose husbands did were. It took another decade for women to be allowed to vote regardless of wealth. (I'm sure you knew all that).

nothing preventing people reading.

There's also loads of good documentaries. We've recently seen a few different ones about Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul and the Ottoman Empire, covering some of the same ground but from different perspectives layering on and intertwining. Some familiar, some very enlightening.

I don't think there's any need for embarrassment for not knowing where places are. Geography and history are taught as separate subjects, which was OK back in my day when it was all about kings and battles, and where the major coal mines were. But it's more interesting when the two subjects overlap and it becomes about the people and the land.

I've recently become interested in the history of Eastern Europe, which is complicated by the changes in political boundaries. But way back in the past, peoples lived and developed their own languages and cultures because of geography. Mountain ranges are very effective dividers when the only all-terrain vehicles were ponies.

More recently, I discovered a 3-part BBC documentary on the Ottoman Empire. That's interesting because it shows the huge area, from the Balkans, through modern-day Turkey, and into the Middle East, that was ruled by the Ottomans for centuries. Then everything fell apart after WWI, and that goes a long way to explaining why there's such problems in Eastern Europe and the Middle East today.

These days, TV documentaries are entertaining as well as being informative. And can lead into loads of interesting googling. But I understand that after a long hard day, doing everything, it’s not going to be documentaries at the top of the list of what to chill out to.

Digging myself even deeper now, but I also thought the Caribbean was Africa too!

I love watching documentaries, mainly history ones, but can't watch too many war ones as I find them too upsetting.

This thread has given me the kick I needed to finally buy the globe I've been thinking of getting for my DGC!

Nothing preventing people reading is true but you have to be mildly interested first. I am not interested in world war two so am unlikely to ever read about it. I am however interested in geography a subject in which I have a degree, but even then for years I thought Bermuda was in the Caribbean

Honestly, every household should have a globe and some good maps of the householders’ home countries, so they can identify cities and counties. And a map of the states as well so people can learn such useful facts such as where Washington State and Washington DC are (a long way away from each other) And where Ohio is compared to Colorado. Maps are wonderful. And there are lots of apps now where you can learn and test yourself - I can identify and name any country in Africa now, even the tiny ones.

For the "oooh I'm terrible at geography!" people - get a map. Look at map . Get on sites like sporcle and do the quizzes. Learn about the world you're living in, beyond knowing about Love Island.

This is what I do, I can spend waste hours exploring google maps, flying over places on Flightradar and googling the little villages/towns, and doing Sporcle and Jetpunk geography quizzes.
As a result I can now name every single country in the world in less than 15 minutes
It all fascinates me.
I never used to be good at Geography/History as didn't really cover it much at school as I dropped them as subjects when you could take your options at the age of 14
As an adult though it interests me greatly and in the age of the internet there's no excuse for not learning new things.
Different things interest different people though.
Hate it when these types of threads always attract smug "OMG, how are people so stoopid" posters though. Never mock people for asking questions and wanting to learn, as I've seen it a lot on here.
Least they're open to learning.

That’s thanks to a long commute!

I was thinking along those lines re history and geography too, kooshbin. 'Geography' always seemed a bit of an odd mix ... maybe it would be more logical to have geology, meteorology type things taught as sciences in schools (I know they may be at degree level) and then in some way combine human geography, history, politics, some aspects of RE...

Geography and history are massively interlinked. And the mixture of the two defines much of world politics today.

It's really interesting learning that now - unlike the geography of oxbow lakes

All this "oh but I was taught x, y or z in school" is a bit pathetic

Ignorance is never cool.

Bit strong there don't you think? Not having the depth of knowledge in one subject doesn't make someone ignorant. I wouldn't call or think someone was ignorant because they didn't understand basic biology or neurology. Life would be boring if we all knew the same things to the same extent.

Geography and history are massively interlinked. And the mixture of the two defines much of world politics today.

Geography itself decides politics. Our politics has been shaped by being an island. We also don't tend to have too many major natural disasters due to our location. It makes for better stability.

You therefore can not ignore geography in politics. National borders frequently fall along natural barriers such as rivers or mountain ranges. There is a reason for that: if you can't cross easily you don't trade or speak the same language and you are more wary of neighbours who can invade you more easily. You also tend to share culture around borders which means you might understand those closest to you better rather than those who are further away.

Again this is something we seem to have forgotten lately.

In fact most school subjects link up with each other but are taught early that they are all very separate things.

I can't get my head around Hispaniola being an island comprising Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

We are not encouraged to link things together.

I agree that there are people who go “ooh, how did you not know that” about . Smugness never works as an aid to other people’s learning.

I think there’s also the aspect of learning/education being something that is done to us. I’m sure there are loads of teachers who would dearly love to make their subjects fascinating, but it’s all about learning the syllabus and achieving good marks in exams. It takes something like a consciousness shift to move to free learning, i.e. learning just for the sheer fun of it. I grew up in an environment where there was no point in learning anything that didn’t get me a job/earn more money.

I’ve indulged in a lot of free learning since I retired. I’m still not an expert in anything. But I can tell you that a king of Mali travelled to Mecca with so much gold that it devalued the currency there. Which has no significance whatsoever, except for the wow! factor, and needing to look up Mali on the map.

Well, yes. There's a meme going round at the moment, which says "No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them". We're taught what people think we should be taught. And if you're British, ime, that means learning nothing about the crimes of empire or indeed the slave trade - save that we supposedly abolished it - even though the industrial Revolution and consequent wealth that we do learn about was built on it.

To think Jamaica and the Caribbean are in Africa means ignorance of hundreds of years and millions of people being taken from their homes. Then being bred to live and die in suffering. And that Britain and USA thus benefitted from the cotton and sugar.

To be ignorant of this is to have a real lack of understanding about racial relations.

Errol - some time ago I watched (yes, another documentary) about the history of weather forecasting in this country. One of the senior scientists (I can’t recall her name) pointed out how they had to incorporate things such as sea surface temperatures and local topography into their forecasts. Which means there are aspects of oceanography, geography, atmospheric sciences, that go on, irrespective of where, or even if, people are living.

On the other hand, geography affects people, and people affect geography. A great book for exploring that is “Prisoners of Geography” by Tim Marshall.

The split between history and geography really doesn’t work these days.

The definitions of geography and more particularly geology as being studies of the Earth are being strained too.... I know a recent geography graduate who's studying glacial features ... on Mars. No, she's not been on any field trips yet.

Sorry, that really is straying way off topic!

To think Jamaica and the Caribbean are in Africa means ignorance of hundreds of years and millions of people being taken from their homes. Then being bred to live and die in suffering. And that Britain and USA thus benefitted from the cotton and sugar.

It's only very recently I've learnt properly about the slave trade through reading up on it, people not interested in history as a subject just won't know the details as they'll be more interested in other subjects.
I'll be able to talk about the slave trade and how it's heartbreaking thinking about how it used to be, but I'll bet they're more knowledgeable in stuff I know nothing or hardly anything about.

But knowing about the slave trade is really important because how we all live is a direct result of that. Indeed, it's arguably more important than all the guff about "lest we forget" + help for heroes etc.