To despair at how helpless some people are

[ThankYouVeryMuch]

You see it on here all the time, poster says they’re in a difficult situation and lots of people respond with sensible advice and details of organisations they can call for help and there’s always a reason why they can’t ask for help.

I saw a job at a local hair salon advertised on Facebook, 1 person posted “interested” underneath so the salon owner responds with their contact details (that were in the ad) and asks for a cv and the person responds “I don’t have a cv, nevermind” or someone else put on my local Facebook group saying she was new to the area and asking if there were any new mums in the local area, so I responded that there was a lovely, free mum and baby group in her village the next day and I knew the organiser so if she wanted to go along I’d make sure she got a warm welcome, and the response was “I can’t go to a baby group, what if none of the other mums speak to me”

Some people just seem as if the world owes them something and they should get what they want without putting in any effort.

i always thought this place was very understanding of people looking for help

It can be, but it’s a double edged sword: because so many people regularly ask for help for the smallest things, posters who read and respond start noticing more how prevalent this helplessness is, If that makes sense. In real life you wouldn’t come across this many people sharing such personal issues for advice as you do on MN so when you start spending a bit of time here it can be a shock to realise the number of adults who can’t/won’t do really basic things and seem to have no motivation to help themselves. So people lose patience somewhat.

For example, on another thread I just saw, a poster referred to ‘find my friends app’, another poster obviously hadn’t heard of it so asked ‘what’s find my friends’?, expecting someone else to tell her when it’d have taken five seconds to google it. It’s like people who post on Facebook ‘what time does local Tesco shut?’ when they could simply google it. It’s a bit rude, but more than that it just shows someone to be utterly helpless. It’s fine not to know something, but it’s a real problem if you haven’t the first clue how to go about finding out and therefore expect others to do it for you.

Add in the very MN specific element of every other poster saying they ‘have anxiety’ and therefore ‘can’t’ do stuff, and the fact it’s a site primarily for parents so attracts a lot of anxious over protective helicopter parents asking for advice on stuff, and all together you can see why the trend in recent times is for responses to be more direct and forthright. Probably partly in frustration, but I think a bigger reason is people learning from past experience that just hand holding or tip toeing around an issue isn’t really effective and can just leave someone continuing to play the helpless lost waif act.

Plus this is AIBU, people asking if they’re being unreasonable, not a board for just hand holding or moral support so people do get straight to the point.

@FrangipaniBlue

Another thing I find is that if you are the kind of person who is willing to help, once you've done it you become the helpless persons "knight in shining armour" and they come back to you ALL THE TIME!

teehee - my best friend is like this, is expected to organise everything, is never thanked, and is then accused of being 'controlling'. She's a people-pleaser because of a difficult mother and having a golden child brother. I point out to her (frequently and annoyingly) that nobody expects me to do anything because they know I can't be arsed, and am only interested in myself.

I see lots on MN, SAHPs who can't do housework and parent, can't google an answer to a question, can't work because of x,y and z, need a man to do all kinds of jobs many women just do by themselves.

It does seem to be women more than men, maybe as they think that men should do it all as they are precious and fragile. I don't know.

In real life there's a mix, some just get on with everything and others expect everyone else to do everything for them. Parenting has a lot to do with an adults outlook, they tend to copy role models.

Why does everything have to be explained away by saying "they might have anxiety or depression"? Yeah they might, lots of us do have it, but also some people are just bloody awkward.

I'm surprised at the posts about parents applying for jobs, college, making phone calls etc on behalf of children. I'm going to think about what things my eldest (admittedly only primary school) can start doing for himself.

Erm, people have always got jobs through their parents or family members. Just look at the 'is this nepotism' thread. And the 'who you know, not what you know' saying.

It does seem to be women more than men, maybe as they think that men should do it all as they are precious and fragile. I don't know.

I think it's the other way around. The women I know are all efficient and keeping multiple balls in the air, the men are bloody useless.

I lived alone for a few years in my early twenties far away from family and previous friends. I understand getting very anxious about doing things, but when you have no one to help, you have to get on with it. And sometimes I think that is a good experience to have.

And I come from a very poor family. There was not an option to get a job through family and friends.

Minesril that’s usually through contacts. Parent emailing a friend/acquaintance to see if they can get their child into a job they would otherwise struggle to access.

Bit different to sixteen year old Laura’s mum marching her into Subway and trying to take control of the whole process from getting an application form to interviewing. The latter is just gonna blacklist her. What employer would take someone on who needs their mummy to be able to do such a basic thing? They’re clearly not gonna be ready for work and being treated like an adult employee.

It does seem to be women more than men, maybe as they think that men should do it all as they are precious and fragile. I don't know.
Yes all those men doing jobs, while running the home and parenting by themselves?!

Why does everything have to be explained away by saying "they might have anxiety or depression"? Yeah they might, lots of us do have it, but also some people are just bloody awkward

It’s the Mumsnet way.

It’s a shame as it just derails threads: surely it’s a given that anyone could have anxiety or depression, and that if it was known and relevant it’d be mentioned in the OP?

Plus it just stigmatises these illnesses and everyone reading starts to associate someone being feckless or flaky with having a mental health issue even if there’s literally no reason to believe that, if on every thread about someone being a dick or useless that line gets wheeled out.

Plenty of people are useless without having anxiety or depression and plenty of people with those conditions still manage to keep the show on the road, and are capable of basic adult skills.

These are sweeping statements and general trends I’ve noticed.

Over-protective parents who drive their children everywhere, so they’re not used to using public transport or cycling or running everywhere.

Over protectiveness - on a recent holiday there were 11 year olds still wearing adult arm bands in the pool.

Parents doing everything for their children, not teaching independence etc

Parents always going into school moaning about every little minor injustice (I don’t mean things such as bullying etc, I mean Little Johnny didn’t get picked for this team, or the teacher misheard him and spoke a bit sharp etc) Same with parents micro-managing play, instead of letting kids sort out their petty squabbles themselves

Parents wanting to shield their children from everything, rather than teaching them that sometimes bad things happen to good people,

People being constantly “offended” by viewpoints that don’t match their own (it seems everyone wants democracy and free speech, until someone says something or votes for something you don’t want.) Rather than just accepting we’re all different.

Not being made to get a Saturday job anymore when you reach a certain age
The welfare state hasn’t helped matters either - the mentality that the world owes me a living, rather than you have to go out and graft for it.

The serious lack of social skills in young people and children worries me. The increase in messaging/email and social media means people are able to hide behind them, rather than speaking.

I know someone who has always lived with parents and up to very recently, never had any form of job, not even temp or part time.

They left college at 21 and claimed to be struggling to find a job... for 9 years! They were always moaning about hiw hard it is to get a job and how people shouldn't complain about their jobs because they were lucky to have a job.

I offered to help over the years. I offered to help with a CV and covering letter and offered to go to temping agencies with them when I was looking for work too. Always had some form of excuse. The excuse for not going to an agency was not having any interview clothes! By this point they'd supposedly been job searching for years!

Anyway, this person turned 30 and their parents panicked and managed to get them a part time cash in hand job with a family friend. Then they bought them a car to help them have some independence.

There comes a point where you just have to accept that some people just want to be looked after and don't want to do anything for themselves.

Of course there are always exceptions in these situations. For example, the situation above would be perceived completely differently if the person had mental health issues or special needs (they don't for the record)

I hate this too. I'm very independant so it baffles me when seemingly capable people 'can't' do the simplest of things and require help. Assuming no illness, then it can only be for the attention. I've just read a post on here abouy the OP's husband supporting and helping a much younger female colleague. It was suggested that he may like helping a damsel in distress, like some kind of hero. Maybe some people like being the damsel in distress.

I never really knew anxiety was really a condition as such until I joined mumsnet. I agree with crunchy mint. If you're forced to fend for your self, if you have to do things alone, you pretty quickly become adept at lots of things in all sorts of circumstances.

The parents applying for jobs for their children are probably doing it in desperation to try and get the lazy sods off their computers and out of their homes. Young people these days seem content to live at home with mum doing everything for every more. They don't want to work, can't be arsed, think the world owes them a living and if their parents won't practice a bit of tough love then is it surprising? I've lost count of the number of threads I've seen on MN by posters of adult DC wondering how the hell they can get them out of their homes, paying their way and living independently.

Not rtft but I totally agree with the OP. I see parents looking for jobs for their grown up children - when I was 15/16 I walked round town handing out CVs. I’ve worked with 20-odd year olds who can’t make a cup of tea or use a washing machine. I’ve just finished a degree and I’m in a Facebook group for others doing the same course. Someone asked for help with an assignment question so I gave her ideas for topics to look at and where to find the info. She replied with ‘but I don’t know any of the answers.’

Thanks for all the replies! I must admit I feel very lucky to have had a good childhood where all my needs were met and my family are supportive.

I really feel for everyone who didn’t have that, I remember in my graduation ceremony the speaker say something along the lines of “knowing everything isn’t important, having questions and knowing where to find the answers is” and I think that’s so true.

One of my DH's friends had been talking for years about what his dream job was. Those jobs are few and far between. A job like that became vacant at my place of work, so I forwarded the job advert to him. He asked me to arrange a job interview for him. I was very junjor and didn't know the manager for that department, so I to told him I couldn't nad that he would have to apply the normal way. Guess it wasn't his dream job after all, for he couldn't be bothered to do that. And no it wasn't that he couldn't write a report, for he was university educated and was used to writing long reports on complicated subjects. He was just too lazy. Only upside was he stopped going on and on about his "dream job".

I was junior at the workplace.Not junjor.

I agree with minesril. My mum got me my first full time job in 1987 - she went to her boss, said 'there's a project we need sorting, my daughter could do it, I'll vouch for her' and I had the job for three months which then meant I had a referee for future observed and a work history. Decades ago that was how most jobs were filled - your parents were expected to see the foreman or the head of department or whatever and say they had a child about to leave school and could they have a job there. And the kid of fourteen would start work there and that would be it for life! The parent would basically cash in their own good reputation with the employer to voucher for their children.

Open recruitment and CVs requiring quite a high literacy level (often for a not particularly literate job) and competitive interviews are all recent and alien to many. Travelling/commuting and going to university are alien to many. A neighbour of 91 died recently - she'd grown up on one street, worked in a shop on the next street until she married when she moved round the corner to live with her husband and raise a family. This is unusual now but it wasn't then.

There is a great book 'feel the fear and do it anyway' which addresses the problem where people may assume that other people find things much easier to do. That's not necessarily true, often you have to push through the fear and anxiety to be able to do something. Most people know it's worth doing that for the confidence boost and satisfaction you get from being able to do the thing!

Unfortunately the current culture is that you “don’t make anyone do anything they are uncomfortable with”, and this is the inevitable outcome.

This is very true! DH is so fantastic at his day job, but he is unbelievable when it comes to doing practical things, and he will give up in a huff the first time it fails and just leave it there. Eg buggy assembly or something similar. I’m the one who always has to roll up my sleeves and say “it can be done, and we are bloody well doing it!” - hopefully this rubs off on him over time! I can’t bear a defeatist attitude.

I do think that sometimes people create a "mystique" (not sure that's the right word) around various tasks, so that others think they are harder than they are. I grew up thinking that decorating was really hard, but when I tried it as an adult I found it was actually pretty easy.

DH always used to cut the grass. I never did because a) too lazy and b) he was always talking about it as if it was really difficult, ie if it was wet, lowering blades blah blah. Made it sound quite technical.
The other week I dared suggest he could have done a better job and he stropped and told me to do it myself. So I did. It's the same as hoovering!

I think women have done this over the years with housework. "I've got a house to run" they say. Yes a house - not a multinational corporation.