To despair at how helpless some people are

[ThankYouVeryMuch]

You see it on here all the time, poster says they’re in a difficult situation and lots of people respond with sensible advice and details of organisations they can call for help and there’s always a reason why they can’t ask for help.

I saw a job at a local hair salon advertised on Facebook, 1 person posted “interested” underneath so the salon owner responds with their contact details (that were in the ad) and asks for a cv and the person responds “I don’t have a cv, nevermind” or someone else put on my local Facebook group saying she was new to the area and asking if there were any new mums in the local area, so I responded that there was a lovely, free mum and baby group in her village the next day and I knew the organiser so if she wanted to go along I’d make sure she got a warm welcome, and the response was “I can’t go to a baby group, what if none of the other mums speak to me”

Some people just seem as if the world owes them something and they should get what they want without putting in any effort.

[hildabaker]

I think that for various reasons, both cultural and through successive Government policies, this spoon-feeding is what happens in schools now, too. The kids are no longer encouraged to learn by finding out for themselves, they are handed all the information they need. As a consequence, they sit back and don't even bother to be independent learners. They take no responsibility for their learning at all, but at the same time they have inflated expectations and see entering University as their right.
I'm talking secondary here, but I wonder where the rot starts to set in.

[LimeCheesecaker]

No wonder kids are growing up like this, aided by parents who are like it too. You see it on here all the time, parents thinking it’s totally normal (expected even) to accompany their 17-18 year old children to university open days a two hour journey away because ‘they can’t do it on their own’, without considering that an almost-adult being unable to travel a couple of hours on their own is a major skills deficit and not normal at all. But if the parents are like it no wonder it gets passed onto their poor children.

[WispaIsSurprisinglyGood]

I think discussion about anxiety (or helpessness depending on opinion) and limitations of a person's ability to comprehend a situation/requirements have been conflated in the thread right from the beginning. Makes for a very disjointed discussion.

[Undercoverbanana]

I always thought this place was very understanding of people looking for help.

It must be wonderful to think you can just contact someone about a job and be all confident and tell them you are good at something. For many people that is absolutely impossible. They are not confident and probably aren’t good at it but need a job. They are not afraid of getting up in the morning (although I am) and working hard. They just don’t have skills that are valued by this society and aren’t full of bullshit.

You have pretty much summed me up in your OP, so thanks. Everyone at my workplace tells me how stupid I am in a million different ways and they are right. I never do or say the right thing. I have nothing to offer them and I’m clinging onto my job knowing that the alternative is to get another one and I’d rather die.

By the way, I run GFA across all distances, have saved a life with CPR, got a degree secretly because I was told I was too stupid to, raised £70,000.00 for a local charity that I felt passionate about and have raised two amazing adults.

Shit. Aren’t I?

[SugarIsAmazing]

You're very negative @undercoverbanana. If you don't like your job change it to one you feel valued in.
You used your brain to get your degree do use it to get you better employment.

[Lucyccfc]

I advertise every year for apprentices and every year I get a flurry of parents phoning up on behalf of their children/young adults.

Some are quite off with me, when I explain that I need to speak directly to their DD or DS. One Mum said that her DS was too shy to phone, so I asked how he would cope at an interview. She said she would be with him. When I said that he would be interviewed on his own, she said that he wouldn't be allowed to come in his own (no disability or special needs). I explained nicely that no employer would allow her in the interview and suggested that he went to college instead to help him mature a bit before he thought about work.

We offered another 16 year old an apprenticeship and when his Mum found out that his first week induction would mean staying in a hotel over-night she phoned up and asked if there would be some adult supervision at the hotel. I asked her if her sons behaviour meant he would need adult supervision?

Some parents are nuts and it's no wonder their kids lack confidence when they do everything for them (the Mums are the worst)

[Sparklfairy]

My ex was like this. I'd send him a link to something he'd said he was interested in. His reply would be 'what's that babe?' Fucking click the link and find out!!

I'd forgotten about this infuriating trait until he randomly contacted me years later, admittedly about something relevant, not just trying to get back with me/communicate again. Him: Where are you living now? relevant to discussion ' Me: (well known main road in our small town) Him: where's that babe?

GOOGLE IT

and stop calling me babe dickhead

[Undercoverbanana]

SugarIsAmazing - I started my degree decades ago on maternity leave. I had a bit of self confidence then. Now I have none. I am not alone in that. There are lots of people like it.

Ok - so you think people can just apply for jobs?

Well I think everyone should be able to run a GFA 10k. Can you?

I think everyone should be able to save lives. Have you?

I know not everyone can have children, so there’s something I used to be able to do (post-menopausal now - trauma induced 5 years ago) but not everyone can.

Society expects everyone to fit into this box and they don’t.

[SugarIsAmazing]

I don't even run for a bus so no I wouldn't run 10k! I might possibly chase an ice cream van
But a job is a lot more necessary.
Hey, it's your life. If you don't like your job then change it, if you "can't" then stay where you are...but then don't moan about it.

[WhiteWalkerWife]

I tend to look at it on a case by case person. In my friends and family:
1 person is coddled by parents
2nd person has depression and self harms
3rd person has a controlling spouse that has worked on keeping them reliant.
4th person is unable to lift anything heavy due to shoulder joint injury, but rarely admits it due to how it was damaged.

Persons 1 and 3 tend not to try at all, while the other two do try but really struggle so get disheartened and give up, especially when their attempts are judged.

I use youtube a lot. Its great for how toos. I do have anxiety so going to baby groups was so daunting at first. Messages and invitations like you sent is really helpful, OP.

[WhiteWalkerWife]

Sparklfairy he sounds annoying with not utilising google, however I am with him on not opening random links people send. If they haven't put anything that isn't generic first then i ask, is this a virus?

I have been caught by friends who have shared links unknowingly. I think that it is more sensible to check first.

[Juells]

Years ago I heard one of my (adult) students discussing her horrific home life - she shared a flat with a group of guys, and she had to barricade her door at night when they'd get back from the pub, drunk and violent. I tried everything to help her, came up with option after option, offered her a bedroom in my house, there was always a reason why something wouldn't work. I understood in the finish, and had to give up - she had been in care as a child, and she was stuck. Sometimes people don't have the life skills to make the right choices, they've never seen how adults run their lives.

[WispaIsSurprisinglyGood]

I always thought this place was very understanding of people looking for help

I think it is. But it has always been a mixed bag of sensitive, supportive and er... direct. I think people very a lot in their ability to empathise with or understand different experiences.

It's rubbish for you that you do a job where you feel stupid. I hope you do find a way to change that. I am just starting work after considering myself completely unemployable so I am not without some understanding of how what seems easy to some can be terrifying.
I know it's not an answer for everyone and it's a MN cliché but good therapy has helped me.

[ArsenalsPlayingAtHome]

I have 4 DC - they are all so different. DC1 - always extremely independent, had very little practical support as she did everything herself from an incredibly early age, is organised and motivated.

DC3 is similar but is even more gutsy, brave and confident.

DC2 has very little self esteem, and almost no motivation & is lazier than the others.

DC4 is growing in confidence, very organised, highly motivated.

Just saying that it's as much to do with individual characters as anything.

Also, the job market is very different these days. My current and penultimate jobs were both by word of mouth - & I've had interviews because I know someone who knows someone.

I work in a place now where a significant number of people, who have worked there decades, got their job on the back of their dad/nan/aunt working there.

I think if fb had existed decades ago, and jobs were as difficult to find then as they are now, and applicants with degrees were ten a penny like they are now, then parents would have used fb to try and get a heads up about jobs, even if it was just to pass on the word to their DCs.

[ArsenalsPlayingAtHome]

Having said that, accompanying your recently graduated DC to a graduate fair, and dragging them over to a stall & talking on their behalf is on another level, obviously.

[clairedelalune]

Yes hildabaker what happens in schools is a problem. I think part of it is because a) it is impossible to 'fail' b) parents have a lot of input c) only teachers (I am one) have any responsibility for kids passing exams. I had one parent screaming at me on parents eve as I had had the audacity to reduce the GCSE predicted grade because their a* child had turned up to their speaking coursework exam, despite weeks of preparation, and said one word. I grew up partly in a country where repeating a year was a common occurrence (and nothing to be ashamed of) but where you needed to get to a certain standard before being accepted onto apprenticeships etc. Parents in this country are very used to having a say (eg disagreeing with detentions/ amount of homework etc) and kids often spurt out 'my mum won't agree' - when I was younger you were posted through the school gates and 5 years later you emerged with your parents having been inside 5 times (parents eve). As teachers we have to spoonfeed as we have to prove we have done everything possible so that we are not viewed as incompetent. I have seen a significant change over the past twelve years, with more and more kids becoming more 'helpless'
I think adult children living at home cam and does work, it happens a lot on the continent, but it has to be viewed in a different way, as adults living together, rather than a parent child relationship, with responsibilities shared.
Anxiety and mental health issues are very serious, but I think sometimes people 'self diagnose' as an excuse which then does almost belittle the genuine and serious nature of proper anxiety which is a very debilitating state to be in.

[silverpenguin]

Sometimes I think it's being unable or unwilling to understand that important things in life aren't always easy. Most people don't actually find applying for jobs - for example - particularly easy. It's stressful, time-consuming and can be really disappointing if you get knocked back. But you still have to do it if you want to be employed. Some people seem to think if they find something difficult they "can't" do it and if they see others doing it, it must just be because they find everything easy and don't even have to try.

I know people like this of all ages.

The other option (I feel like I see this a lot where I work) is that people just love to have a moan. They definitely won't do anything to improve things because if things were better...what would they moan about then?!

[FrangipaniBlue]

Another thing I find is that if you are the kind of person who is willing to help, once you've done it you become the helpless persons "knight in shining armour" and they come back to you ALL THE TIME!

and I'm talking here about people with no SN and no anxiety type issues, just either learned helplessness or pure laziness "but it's ok Frangipani will fix it"

Two examples this week:

1. School Fete that I played a major part in planning and organising but couldn't get there until after the start due to work commitments. I handed over all information to someone else. An hour before the start I was getting frantic phone calls and text messages about two entertainers who hadn't turned up (yet) so I had to leave a meeting to GOOGLE the phone numbers and send them to the other person.
   
   
2. Friend trying to set up a piece of equipment, I explained the three basic steps and told her there were lots of step by step instructions she could follow on the internet, that's how I did mine. She "couldn't do it" (before she'd even tried) could I go round. Ok, I'll come on night X. Why can't you come tonight? Because I'm busy, I have things to do. Friend couldn't possibly wait until night X for me to go round and started immediately. I then spent most of my night that I was supposed to be doing other things responding to her texts and phonecalls trying to sort things and talking her through it. FFS I SAID I WAS BUSY!!!!!

[Raspberryberetthekindyoufind]

Me and another mum are setting up a PTA at school. We are the only two mums in the whole school that have volunteered. We are organising a summer fayre which is next week and the amount of parents that have had a go at us saying they have not booked time off work and can’t now because they didn’t know about it- this is after it has been on the last 6 weekly newsletters, posters in school (including on the doors of each classroom), separate flyer sent home two weeks ago and it’s all over the website. Not to mention the massive banner outside School that the kids have made.
In fact we have got so much grief the other Mum and I are thinking of stopping after this event

[Sparklfairy]

WhiteWalkerWife oh I get that but this would always be in the middle of a conversation, normally slap bang in the middle of a fairly lengthy message. So like 'blah blah blah BTW you remember we were talking about x? I found this (link) and it says y that you mentioned.

plus he was too dumb to know what a virus even was

[FrangipaniBlue]

Today I went to buy cat litter and was lifting a 40lb box off of the self onto my trolley whilst DH went to look at something else- I'm perfectly capable of doing this, yet immediately a man swooped in to help.

Argh this boils my piss!! I lift heavier shit in the gym that anything in my local supermarket (or other shop)!but as soon as you are seen picking something up a bloody man tries to swoop in! SHOOOO!!!!

[TheSassyAssassin]

I agree with a PP that social media has some part to play in all this. People interact with each other in RL less and less and then seem to lose their social skills as a result. Didn't have Google when I was growing up so I had to ask another human-being about things. Not msg, not FB post, but go and ask. I think as social media reliance has increased, there has been correlating increase in helplessness and also a corresponding need to have something in an instant. People seem incapable of waiting or learning to finally get whatever it is they want. If it's not there in one-click then they can't cope. Madness!

[Babynut1]

Ah yes! I ethos a lot in work.
I work in a call centre and we always get parents phoning on behalf of their kids, even had a woman ring once phoning for her 40 something son.
It’s never their fault when they miss a payment.
There’s a lot more but that would give away what I do.

But I agree, it’s always someone else’s fault these days.

[Echobelly]

I do think people are getting too 'scared' of other people and it's not a healthy trend. I have been allowing DD to go to the local shop to buy things for herself or me, which she likes to do. A few months ago, when she was 9, she came back with the wrong thing, so I sent her back to ask to change it. As I expected, she was a bit reluctant, but I know the local shopkeepers know her and are always very helpful and I actually thought it would be a really useful lifeskill to deal with a small, slightly awkward interchange. And she did it just fine - but I do know there are adults who are too 'embarrassed' to correct a mistake or make a complaint.

[Xenia]

The bottom line is that people like this suffer at the end of the day so it makes sense to force yourself into doing things even if you don't like it. I was quite pleased one of my student sons yesterday when his DBS (that criminal records thing) came by post said I was not to help him register and look it up as I made things worse not better. I quite like having my help rejected on the grounds the teeanagers would prefer to do stuff themselves (because you tend to learn a lot if you make your own mistakes in life).