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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to remind people about today's march against Brexit

500 replies

twofingerstoEverything · 23/06/2018 09:16

...starting at 12 o clock from Pall Mall.

(Piccadilly, Green Park and Charing Cross station are the nearest tubes.)

OP posts:
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8
GardenGeek · 24/06/2018 00:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Childrenofthesun · 24/06/2018 00:10

Interesting question about the Scottish referendum. I don't know, but I suspect that also must only have been advisory. However, if it had gone to a Yes vote with a 48-52 split, then I would certainly have expected a similar amount of protest about the result by those who wanted to remain in the UK. It is always going to be more contentious to change the status quo than to keep it.

I also think the Scottish government were slightly better prepared as they had a longer time between announcing the referendum and carrying it out, although there were still many unresolved issues of course - eg lack of clarity over the currency.

Quite possibly, the Brexit referendum makes a future referendum on Scottish independence more likely, as those who voted no did so on the basis of the information presented at the time, saying that an independent Scotland may not be able to remain as a member of the EU - which they are not going to be remaining members of now anyway.

However, if that vote had gone the other way, I think it would have been fair to allow the Scottish people a say on any final agreement that was reached after negotiations. I don't see how you can enter into a process of negotiations of which you don't know the outcome and then just accept the final result even if it was not what you were expecting. Even Nigel Farage has said the way Brexit is progressing is not what he had expected and may well be completely crap for the UK.

In summary, yes the UK is rubbish at holding referenda! Unless it really is a binary question, with the new legislation already drafted (like in the repeal the eighth referendum in Ireland) then it seems they shouldn't be held unless you have a definitive outcome, rather than just an unachievable wishlist.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 24/06/2018 00:27

If and when the 'deal' comes to parliament and they decide it is to complicated or hard for them to decide then maybe they will decide to have another referendum of the voters, as happened with the first referendum.

Bu its undemocratic to say our elected MPs wont be able to make a decision before hand.

Its is democratic to say our MPs should accept the deal or we leave the EU without a deal. Unless of course you think we should over throw our democracy and replace it with governance by referendum?

Walkingdeadfangirl · 24/06/2018 00:28

death penalty anyone?

ilovesooty · 24/06/2018 00:36

I hope that there is never a referendum on the death penalty.

woman11017 · 24/06/2018 00:40

death penalty anyone
What was the Ricky Gervais joke about bleach warnings and referendums?

Kursk · 24/06/2018 01:25

death penalty anyone?

Will they be playing Metallica’s Ride the lightning in the voting booth??

Itinerary · 24/06/2018 01:40

What will the EU look like a few years down the line? Quite possibly it will be going downhill fast. Its leaders will be attempting to cling on to power and money in ever more draconian, stealthy and dishonest ways. Totalitarian superstate anyone? The plan was always to centralise power and remove it further from "the people". If we don't escape now, there will never be another chance.

Remainers don't know what Brexit "looks like" because, of course, we haven't even left the EU yet. Nor do they recognise, in their ideological, fundamentalist adoration, the real negative likelihood of what the EU will "look like" quite soon.

Post-Brexit Britain might be outward-looking, streamlined, multicultural instead of stuck in the backward EU bubble, with worldwide trading arrangements, laws which Britain has worked hard for and go much further than Brussels would, etc. But some people don't even want our country to be independent and have that chance to prove ourselves outside the Little EU.

The referendum vote to Leave was not "Leave but only if XYZ happens". It was to leave come what may, whatever it takes. That was the People's Vote, as I'm pretty sure the voters were all people.

Helmetbymidnight · 24/06/2018 07:52

Ah a brexiteer still churning out the old unsubstantiated nonsense- I don’t think people are swayed by that anymore. They want facts and solutions.

I’m sure brexiteers are also following the worry about cancer treatments post- Brexit. How do the words to ‘prove ourselves outside the little eu’ fit into it I wonder?

uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-cancer-treatment-euratom-patients-at-risk-2018-3

54321go · 24/06/2018 07:52

The days of Britain 'ruling' and dictating are long gone, the world has got into gear and is moving. The industrial 'might' of the UK is a fraction of either Germany or France and they are pretty small on a world stage.
I see in the papers this morning that there are calls for the UK to 'get tough' and not pay the 40 Billion 'divorce bill'.
Financially the EU could just give a one finger salute and slam the door then carry on without the UK. Britain can't feed itself so depends on imports. Britons need to get real, they are not 'top dog' anymore.

JacquesHammer · 24/06/2018 07:57

*Bu its undemocratic to say our elected MPs wont be able to make a decision before hand.

Its is democratic to say our MPs should accept the deal or we leave the EU without a deal*

So you want MPs to vote, but not to vote. If you think the job of an MP is to blindly follow an advisory referendum at the expense of national stability, again you need to do some more reading. We live in a representative democracy not a direct democracy.

Unless of course you think we should over throw our democracy and replace it with governance by referendum?

That. Wouldn’t. Be. Undemocratic.

Helmetbymidnight · 24/06/2018 07:59

I love the ‘multicultural’ bit she stuck in there.

Funny.

Moussemoose · 24/06/2018 08:13

Thank you Jacques for explaining the basics of British representative democracy. I am fed up of ill informed people throwing the term democracy around with no idea what it means.

Democracy does not mean the majority always wins. Until very recently the majority of the population supported the death penalty and yet it was abolished 50ish years ago. Our representatives in parliament made the decision for us. That is how U.K. democracy works.

LARLARLAND · 24/06/2018 08:15

I think there is definitely an argument for resisting the centralising of power from a massive EU state (and I say that as a remainer). Anybody who has read the work of the economist Schumacher may agree with him that small is beautiful. As a Northerner I have felt that our own government has been too centralised and there is little understanding of local issues in London. It feels like the problem could be worsened if control is completely given over to Brussels. I can totally see why deprived areas in the North West, North East and wales voted out. I then read posts on here about how someone had a wonderful go year in The Netherlands and is furious that their Dd won’t have the same opportunity and in all honesty I feel the out campaigners had a point...

LARLARLAND · 24/06/2018 08:16

Gap year not go year.

Helmetbymidnight · 24/06/2018 08:20

Are you, like Marcus, excited by industries leaving and fewer jobs?

Do you think leaving euratom is good?

What’s your idea for n irelandborder?

shall we just shout independence! And pretend it’ll all be great?

Helmetbymidnight · 24/06/2018 08:24

That’s for brexiteers!

LARLARLAND · 24/06/2018 08:25

I wonder how many people who marched yesterday marched for the miners in the 80s? I am guessing than barely one of them gave a fuck and I know none of them give a fuck our communities have been left to rot for thirty years and our kids are getting a third rate education compared to kids in the south east.

missmouse101 · 24/06/2018 08:27

Bloody hell, all of this arguing. I hate it. We could be just fine if we leave,we could have been just fine if we stayed. No one knows. Can't we let them just get on with their jobs?

LARLARLAND · 24/06/2018 08:27

And what about the other industries too? The mills, steel? Nobody has cared for a generation and now that your trips to France in the summer and your kids gap years in The Hague are affected suddenly you all give a shit Grin

JacquesHammer · 24/06/2018 08:29

And what about the other industries too? The mills, steel? Nobody has cared for a generation

I’m from the industrial north. I care a lot about industry.

Amazing the brain has this fantastic capacity for thinking about more than one issue Hmm

Helmetbymidnight · 24/06/2018 08:31

Firstly w/c vote was divided- the elderly vote was leave, the uneducated voice was leave, let’s stop pretending all poorer people voted to leave. It’s a lie. And you know it.

Tell us how excited you are about airbus leaving- how good that will be for the w/c- as well as all the jobs - they contribute billions - let’s hear the benefits- I can’t wait.

LARLARLAND · 24/06/2018 08:32

If you are from the industrial north Jacques you should understand the reasons people voted out. You sheer frustration people have for the ruling classes and the need to give them a kick in the bollocks for having been ignored and reviled for decades.

LARLARLAND · 24/06/2018 08:33

Some poor people voted to leave Helmet. As per usual their voices are ignored.

kalapattar · 24/06/2018 08:34

our communities have been left to rot for thirty years and our kids are getting a third rate education compared to kids in the south east

Brexit won't solve that.

The only thing that can solve that is improved investment, investment in skilled jobs, investment in infrastructure and a market for people to buy the goods which are produced with as few barriers as possible,

With the advent of Trump, we need all the support and back up we can to fight his protectionist ideas and his tariffs.

We are not the industrial country we were - we may have a high national GDP but per person, it's not that impressive.