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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think asking EU nationals to pay £65 pounds is disgusting

169 replies

Ninmpy · 22/06/2018 10:40

They moved here without these rules and all the money will go on is just continuing as they are.

It's just asking for money to be them! Not on at all!

OP posts:
Motortrader · 22/06/2018 16:40

wouldn't

RomeoBunny · 22/06/2018 16:42

Should be triple.

Helmetbymidnight · 22/06/2018 16:43

It just gets shortened in my mind to - 'Ha, told you non-EU families are just fucked anyway. What idiot would vote to try to improve that

Again, what on earth are you talking about?

Is your latest argument that you voted Brexit for the sake of non-eu families? Confused

54321go · 22/06/2018 16:47

@Sodding
I would not expect anyone to reveal info from a PM and as it was personal reasons then absolutely not. I am just interested to find anything tangible that leavers thought could be made to happen. Most of it (apart from the bits I mentioned) have been discredited.
I have already 'lost out' plenty of money as the exchange rate has fallen.

OlennasWimple · 22/06/2018 16:47

The government is very clear that some visa fees are set at rates higher than the cost of processing - when the legislation to set the new fee levels is being passed, they have to say which routes are being charged at cost, which below and which above. Charging more for something like ILR means that fees for things like visitor visas can be below processing cost. Overall the immigration system costs more to run than the government receives in fees, because the costs of enforcement (which are pretty large in the UK) cannot be included in the cost base for setting fees

The basic rule of thumb for EU freedom of movement rules is that other EU citizens can only be expected to do or pay the same as the nationals of that country. So if that country charges for health care and requires residents to register at the local town hall when they move address, they can require Brit Cits to do the same. They can't require Brit Cits to do something more than their own nationals (for now - post Brexit, all bets are off...)

£65 isn't very much at all - it cost me more than that to get a new driving licence in the US, which although not mandatory acts as a de facto ID card (buying alcohol, proving address to school authorities, getting a phone contract.... All much easier with a driving licence)

Madbengalmum · 22/06/2018 16:55

FFS, you have to pay MUCH more than this in some EU countries, it is £65, why should we cover the administrative costs of this, people should pay like we have to pay in their countries. End of.

PaddyF0dder · 22/06/2018 16:55

@gardengeek

Sorry, but that just sounds like garden variety blaming of “remain” voters for the shitshow that is Brexit.

Via what earthly mechanism exactly?!

You voted for this. It’s yours. Own it in all its shite reality, and don’t blame remain voters for even one bit of it.

SoddingUnicorns · 22/06/2018 17:14

@54321go I know, I was just explaining that because it was personal it didn’t feel right to put it on here iyswim?

FWIW the person who messaged me was in absolutely no way racist/xenophobic. If anything they were hopeful that this could bring about a shift in the government’s attitude to the British people.

It’s not a standpoint I personally agree with, but can understand why someone else would if that makes sense.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 22/06/2018 17:27

£65 for permanent residence in the UK is peanuts, my passport costs more than that and I was born here. I think the fee should be the same cost as a passport.

But I am worried that you can just self declare that you have lived here for 5 years and then you can bring your whole family in, no questions asked. That's not open for immigration abuse is it? Confused

Havanananana · 22/06/2018 17:50

£65 for permanent residence in the UK is peanuts, my passport costs more than that and I was born here. I think the fee should be the same cost as a passport

A residence permit is not the same as a passport - millions of UK citizens live in the UK and don't have and don't need a passport.

But I am worried that you can just self declare that you have lived here for 5 years and then you can bring your whole family in, no questions asked.

Not so. The applicant has to declare that s/he has lived in the UK for 5 years and state exactly where they have lived and worked or studied. This will then be checked against NI and Tax records. 'The whole family' is only the immediate dependent family.

FWIW I have lived in several EU countries. The £65 fee is about what is charged elsewhere. I'd be more concerned about the security of the system and the ability of the Home Office to build it from scratch and get it working in time, with no 'Windrush' errors and no deportations.

I'm surprised that nobody has yet realised that this could be the trial for a system of registering ALL citizens in the UK - i.e. ID Cards - in the future.

Xenia · 22/06/2018 17:58

yes, they will check your NI record etc. I have always lived here but I was able to get on my HMRC account (I fill out a tax return) access to all my NI records and I was really impressed they were totally accurate for every year back to 1983 when i started paying actually. So I suspect those who have always worked and always paid NI will find it fairly easy to prove.

ZispinAndTurmericLatte · 22/06/2018 18:00

Motortrader when looking into spousal visa, talking things over with an immigration solicitor etc, the information I was given that no amount of degrees removes the need for the government approved language test.

54321go · 22/06/2018 18:03

In various forms all citizens ARE on government databases anyway. The info is scattered through NHS, National Insurance, Driving license, electoral roll and others. We just don't have it personally on a convenient card.

seafret · 22/06/2018 19:07

Motheroffourdragons yes its OK I meant we treat everyone. I'm tired today so didn't word it well I think!

My point is that we treat everyone, but someone or everyone still has to pay for it. The rules/laws average stuff out but may seem ridiculous or completely essential for the people at either end of the spectrum.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 23/06/2018 01:46

What is disgusting to say EU nationals should pay a nominal fee to gain the right to stay in the UK forever?

Why do you even want to be here if you are so against the rule of law?

CheekyChinchilla · 23/06/2018 07:02

It sounds pretty reasonable to me. I’m in the USA, I can’t remember the exact costs for a visa, then green cards, but it was well into the 1000s. That only gives the right to live here for 10 years. If you want to apply for citizenship it’s another $750ish dollars per head. Friends who came over here at the same time had numerous visa problems because of mistakes made by US Immigration - every correction cost our friends more money. Our driving licences cost the same as an American, but were only issued for a much shorter period of time. We had to pay for medicals and vaccinations purely related to our green card. I think someone upthread said EU nationals can vote in UK local elections. We can’t do that. So 65 quid doesn’t seem such a bad deal.

craxmum · 23/06/2018 08:27

No, but.

In reality EU citizens never had a freedom to come and go as they please. They have never been subject to immigration control, but always have been subject to residence restrictions.

For example, there is a concept of "exercising treaty rights", which is: employed, self-employed, student, self-sufficient (with medical insurance). De jure, an EU (non-Irish) citizen who was not "exercising treaty rights" was residing in the UK illegally. There are even powers of deportation granted to the government under EU freedom of movement - not currently used against French grannies, of course, but against Roma rough sleepers.

I am a Remainer, but I find these complaints about the new registration scheme disingenuous. It is effectively a mass amnesty, as a significant number or people were in breach of the "treaty rights" condition. I personally find it incredible that someone could move to another country, cross the border, and not bother to check the residence requirements even once. If my Polish hairdresser, with very limited English, knew about the requirement to have private medical cover if she is not working, how come all these highly educated expats campaigning for EU citizens did not?

It is probably a sense of entitlement or superiority, I cannot explain it otherwise. My immigration solicitor says she cringes inside every time when a white, middle-class and native-English-speaking potential client (Australia, Canada, US, NZ etc) contacts her for advice with "there must be a minor misunderstanding here". Because, in her experience, there is very likely to be a long history of overstays, breach of immigration laws etc., all explained by "I did not know this", which she translates in her head as "I thought white people are above this stupid immigration law".

Parker231 · 23/06/2018 13:02

I’m an EU National. I’ve lived in the uk since I was five. My DH and DC’s have Canadian passports. I’ve no problem in paying the £65 but for those who are saying it’s cheaper than a passport, we need a passport as well so it’s definitely not cheaper.

OlennasWimple · 23/06/2018 13:21

Well said, craxmum. I do wonder how things might have been different if we had actually applied all the requirements for exercising treaty rights properly (insisting that health insurance was held, testing the work issue for people other than one-legged roof tilers). I guess we'll never know now

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