To wonder how the heck schools expect working parents to cope with this?

[Worriedaboutdog]

Apologies this may be a rant. DS1 is due to start school in September. We have therefore put childcare plans in place based on him starting school on the first day of term in September. School have just announced that:

a) reception start a week later
And
b) as a summer birthday, DS actually will do half days for another week after that, and ‘must be picked up at 1.30pm’.

No mention of either of these things was made when we looked round the school. We have already juggled the time off we have available to look after him over the summer. As it happens it’s probably easier for us than most parents as DH is a shift worker so can cover some days, but we were relying on him going to school at the beginning of September, and being in after-school club on days DH isn’t at home until I can get there to pick him up. Wtf are parents who both work Monday-Friday meant to do about two extra weeks?! This was all announced today in a meeting (I couldn’t go, because it was at 3.30pm, but DH did), and when he asked the class teacher if they had to go home at lunchtime or could stay and then go to after school club, she said they had to go home and we’d have to get ‘a grandparent or someone’ to pick them up. So we’ll just magic up a grandparent physically fit and willing enough to do a whole week of half days childcare, who is actually able to drive to the school, then.

He can possibly go back to his current nursery for the week he isn’t in school at all, but the half days are stumping me. I think I probably am being unreasonable to be cross - I realise school is not designed to be childcare, and therefore not run for the convenience of the parents, BUT they must know that parents make assumptions (based on the information on their website!) about the dates of terms and the length of the school day, and make arrangements accordingly. And that this just isn’t feasible for everyone, and if they don’t bloody tell you about it until June then plans (and budgets) for September childcare are already in place! Argh.

@NerrSneer - no it wasn't. He was at full time nursery before school. He only started with her at the start of term (but yes, now is with her all the time).

I love how on mumsnet on one thread you'll find people attacking mums who work p/t and claim tax credits, and on another thread the people will attack parents for working full time and so struggle with childcare.

Anyway, yes, it seems like primary schools have out of date ideas about parents' working habits and family availability for childcare ect. I think these settling in days sound more suited to the time when a lot of kids didn't/ barely went to nursery, and there were more SAHMs around.

The majority of schools around here for staggered starts for Reception. I think its great for the children - only 15 kids to get to know initially, a change for the teachers to get to know them ad to handle the adjustment to a learning environment.
Yes, it's inconvenient for working parents, but it's not arranged for the parents, it's what the school feels is best for the children.
I can understand it coming as a shock the first time. However, it's a lot shorter transition in most places now than 15 years ago when my first started and it was 6 weeks!

I thought that this post was over? However, thank you to the 3 persons who PMd me earlier. Your words were very kind. As for the one who knows who Princess... is and explained more in detail about her, it makes sense why some people are miserable in their own lives and therefore look to insult others.

I had nothing more to say to that person as I wouldn’t have the right vocabulary to address some one whose mouth is like a sewer.

Whether I was using a Username or not I’m not the type of person to use swear words to speak - some would find that people who resort to swearing at another as being “stupid” and therefore she is not worth dignifying with a response. I do not speak that way but I had to address these kind posters before j go off on holiday as I appreciated their funny and kind comments. I had no idea that I would suddenly somehow upstage the OP post
I’m about to get on a plane and it’s quite funny how a day of what I thought was boring travel to the airport with a late flight would have been so odd to say the least. Lovely ladies you know who you are, enjoy your Summer as so will I.

I don't know if this has already been mentioned as I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but if you can't field unexpected stuff like this now, you will need to have a rethink about how to deal with things in the future. You need to be much more flexible with plans and budgets- and I don't think this is limited to school. I don't know anyone whose life is so set in stone that they can't cope with a change of plans 3 months in advance and take it in their stride- it sounds really limiting. This isn't meant to be critical- just a suggestion that perhaps you are restricting your ability to enjoy life if you expect carefully laid plans to be executed when put in place so far in advance.

Agree it is not ideal but it's just one of those things that life chucks at us and we deal with. No biggie.

RoseWhiteTips I am not 21 it’s just my fave number. I will be 25 this Summer though.

There's really nothing ruder than someone who insists on continually parading and revelling in their ignorance, using their own failures of understanding to berate others with. So passively aggressively obnoxious and arrogant. That has been your approach this thread Deirdre. Frankly a good honest fuck off is more polite: it at least has the dignity of not pretending.

My children’s school, for all their faults, is brilliant for new starters. Full time from day 1. Both my August born children managed this fine and I don’t see why others don’t do this. They are in a nursery based on the school too though and the reception class does free flow into nursery for some sessions - doors shut for other session. My youngest did full days in nursery a few days a week too and others full time every day. Considering many children have been in full time day nursery before they start school, often from 7am or until about 6pm, the schools really need to rethink their admission policy for new reception children as it’s a bit out dated.

My dd started and had 1.5 weeks of half days. First week was afternoons (1:15-3:15) 2nd week was 3 days of mornings (9:15-11:45) then 2 full days.
It is a logistical nightmare. I'm lucky I had my dad for a day or 2 but I won't rely on him too much. Instead, I sent her to nursery and they took and picked up from school! They were amazing!
Now it's the parent meetings they have at 3:30 pm when I struggle to pick her up from after school club before 5:55pm

My kids schools did something pretty similar. They stayed in private nursery all summer hols then we both took two weeks off to be a part of their first weeks. Our school did 1 week either am or pm (half and half classes) and no lunch then the second week the whole class did AM they stayed for lunch.

It was really difficult though and it worked as we usually took one of those weeks off anyway. But I can see how it would be an issue. Are there any nursery's who pick up from school or a child minder who might want a couple of extra hours work?

I think staggered starts are fairly standard for reception. Our current nursery is offering discounted preschool sessions for school starters to get through the first few weeks.

From following the tread more, I feel staggered starts help some children.

We've all said "they've done it that way for years" but with more families having two working parents, I think it's a process that needs to move on with the times.

There are ways to settle children in gently while being there all day. Half days are wonderful in theory, but in reality, not that great for parents.

Surely schools could find ways around this?

Amazing how many people seem to live in areas where there are nursery and childminder spaces to accommodate a staggered start. Near me (central London) none do this as the spaces are filled and they have waiting lists. For a nursery, in particular it must be difficult to free up staff to go between nursery and school.

Slovenly- three months notice of a staggered school start isn’t unreasonable if you need to apply for annual leave. There is a risk that if you only apply for annual leave three months in advance that others may have already booked the time off and your request is refused.

That’s if you have any annual leave left. I’ve booked almost all of mine for the year by this point.

I’m off for October half term and I doubt that a staggered start followed by all of half term in childcare is much good for reception age children. A staggered start for many children just means more time in childcare for them and their siblings.

I think panda pie has nailed this. It's nothing to do with whether working parents prioritise their children. I've spent this week running round like a blue arsed fly to be at music concerts, sports days and nursery picnics because they were important to my children. But 6 weeks of staggered starts and half days is really difficult to accommodate because her pre school will have given her place to the next year's intake and childminders will be full. The only real options are a temp nanny, assuming you can find one and afford it, unpaid leave (which is a bit of a waste as other daughter is of compulsory school age so we can't go anywhere much) or a patchwork of favour swapping etc which is a ballache because you're not just asking someone to mind your child but also to collect them from somewhere in particular at a particular time. It's not a one off either if you have several children, and our school particularly takes the piss by doing this two years running at pre school and reception. It's not impossible for me, but I do query whether it's proportionate to any real benefit. My dd1 seemed quite phased by all the talking up of what "long days" they'd be doing next week till.i pointed out she'd be home earlier than she was used to, when she said "oh really?" Genuinely surprised she wasn't being asked to spend the night, given all the fuss. Plus all her nursery friends went to slightly more sensible schools and we didn't know any of her new friends yet so she was a bit lonely before school started properly truth be told.

So no more threads about what do SAHMs do all day, once kids are at school? Now we all realise that schools are centered around children and not careers. And often arrangements chop and change at the last moment.

Don’t think these funny hours are the last of it. There’ll be inset days/ sports day will change several times/ concerts will happen with barely a moments notice. It’s school, and it may be old fashioned, but it is centered on the children. Some of the long nursery hours that are being mentioned almost sound like boasting.

I get there are all sorts of life experiences going on here - but some of us think the slow start into school is a good thing - and if we dare say that we get ranted at over the internet.

The irony Hangers is that when I tried to make a case for Flexi schooling my summer born dd I was told it wasn't good for her to "miss out" on vital learning. They also spent the remaining weeks of term worried about how much they had to cram in. The irony was not lost. Of course schools are about children. That doesn't mean they have to be inconsiderate towards parents. A lot of things could be made smoother with adequate notice too. There's really no reason for things to be moved around with no notice and "meh it's old fashioned but it's for the good of the children" is the attitude that people are complaining about. Surely a two way street would be better?

Possibly, but the reality is it’s not like that, and isn’t likely to change anytime soon. Plus you’ll never please everyone.
Not all kids are used to long hours in nursery, why should they be penalised by suddenly starting full time school?

School only lasts 13 years anyway - suddenly your kids are leaving home - and you find yourself missing them. School passes in a flash.

It's not universal any more and it's also not best practice any more.
My DS went on Thurs and Fri morning then all day from the following Mon. DD is going Mon-Weds morning then full time.

There's nothing to prevent anyone attending part time until they're of compulsory school age. Who'd be penalised by accommodating full time attendance for those who want it? And stop it with all the "it goes by in a flash" nonsense. We all love our children. We'd just like not to have to make random heath Robinson esque childcare arrangements for them at an unsettling time on the basis that "it's not going to change any time soon". Why not? If LAs read this thread and see how much stress it causes maybe they'll put out new guidance for schools and it could change overnight. I'm actually not arguing on my own behalf because I do have enough spare income and flexibility at work to manage, I'm arguing on the basis that child poverty is a massive problem in our country and pushing more families over the financial stability cliff is not in children's best interests.

To be honest - the going by in a flash remark didn’t for one second mean to say people don’t love their children. Why would you think that?
It just meant that you suddenly find that they’re leaving home and don’t want you around - you can’t believe it’s gone so fast and you wish you could do it all again.

@HangersOn you sound like your screen name, hanging on to your child.

Non-nursery children would be penalised? What about those who have been ft? Surely they're penalised by half days?

Schools should just offer fills day from the start. If parents who are available for half day arrangements wish to do that then that can be an option. That way, there are options for all.

Yes I know. But you (and others) are conflating bitching about having to accommodate this sort of thing with a lack of appreciation for the fleetingness of childhood. It comes across very much as if those who have to balance work commitments have their priorities wrong and should be celebrating this time with our children. Whereas I'm saying we all know what is important. Dancing to the whim of schools on an unevidenced claim that it's "best" is not it, especially if it jeopardises other delicate balances like financial stability, the needs of other children in the family and so on. If I use all my annual leave on settling I have to put my eldest in holiday club all summer. That's time I won't get back either. And there are more serious consequences for other families which could cast a shadow over their childhood. Saying "it goes by in a flash" is glib.

This thread has shown that parents want their DC’s to settle in well at the start of their schooling. If your school offers a staggered start and you want that approach then use it. If you want your DC to start full time from the start of the term, then do that. We’re lucky we legally have a choice.