To find teachers a bit bloody defensive / precious

[SweetFanniAdams]

Just find myself feeling the need to pussy foot around issues so as not to offend dc’s teachers. Not just isolated to the odd one over the years, but seems to be a theme that when ever I try to interact, understand what’s going on (with a view to support their work at home) that I get very defensive responses, like I’m questioning their teaching or decisions or something.
Bloody exhausting.
I’m very direct and find I have to spend a huge amount of time planning and thinking about what I want to say so as not to be offensive or misunderstood. I wish I could just communicate freely.
Is this just something that happens to me?

Sorry meant general non SENCO not non teachers

To recap OP

You have met with Form Tutor 1-2 times a term to discuss DS behaviour
99% of issues in PE - are issues with one teacher or lots of different ones? (If it’s lots of teachers and your DS has ASD/ADHD then this may be too much change for him, routine can be key here - visual timetable may help?)

Director of PE yells at DS

You have met Director of PE only once.

DS is given a detention (which you agree to but also say it doesn’t work)

Meds - no sharing of info amongst staff - there should be but only on a need to know basis

SENCO is involved and you have met and discussed with SENCO and Form tutor

Behaviour in PE - you want to know what causes the meltdowns. Have the staff said what they think causes them?

MaisyPops
As the bulk of the issues are in games I suggested to head of games that we agree that all games staff who come into contact with ds have been briefed on ds condition and are aware of medication and what to look out for side effect wise.
Then keep communication open via email over any issues that crop up.
I pushed it a bit and asked for a bit of a tick list of teachers who had been briefed but that was poo pooed

Tbh general teaching staff will not necessarily have much up to date info on sen needs - this is why if the senco isn’t disseminating info to teaching staff they’re not doing a very good job. They should be making staff aware that the behaviour policy will need to be adjusted for certain kids - however determining ‘how much’ adjustment should be made is tricky (and I have my own bug bears around that as a SEN ta!).
I can see why it would be difficult to suggest the school haven’t adequately trained their teachers around your sons needs without the SLT getting defensive - if it’s really a problem that they aren’t making reasonable adjustments I would just make A Fuss - they can be as defensive as they want but it’ll get done. You could just ask the senco what CPD the school has offered around adhd or whatever - it might cause some eye rolling but they’ll have to suck it up won’t they.

Having said all that there could be more to it that we won’t get from you - If it’s something like the school aren’t convinced your son actually has sen then I can see why you’re not getting anywhere

As for training on ASD/ADHD etc, SENCO should be up to date and advising staff on best practice. There should be strategies used and these can be listed in what is called a "Pesonal Plan" so that any member of staff teaching your DS knows what triggers there may be and what can be done to help. However they can only make reasonable adjustments, not fulfil everything like a wishlist.

It also has to be said that kids with ASD/ADHD are still kids who will push boundaries, because that's what kids do and all kids need good boundaries to feel safe.

Personal Plan not Pesonal

A general lack of structure is the cause of issues in PE
When ds started meds I sent email to head and form tutor (inc nurse) making it clear all games teachers are briefed and gave info on what to look out for.
There are LOADS of games teachers, I have only met and know names of a few of them.
This week ds had a games teacher he’d never met before, was yelled at and not sure why. I popped a very light email over to director of games (as per our meeting) asking if he teacher this week had been briefed and knew of meds - short answer was he didn’t know
It’s not good enough is it?

I’m confused about what is a sen need that affects behaviour or a medication need, sorry. The school won’t be able to give you a list of staff who have been briefed - YABU about that.

When you pushed for a tick list, yes that would kind of piss them off. But it sounds like you don't trust them, so I do understand. You need to build the relationship back with them, and learn to trust that they have your DS best interests at heart too (you may just not agree on what those best interests are!.

School accepts ds diagnosis
They have seen the reports and are included in communications post every consultant visit (6 monthly). Having said that, it is really only SENCO that see that, I’m sure all the other teachers don’t. I do get a vibe from some teachers that it’s just a boy behaviour thing - which boils my shit it really does

Hmmm tbh I am a bit about your last post. Are the meds’ and the shouting connected? Was he shouted at for a reason directly coming from the meds his teacher didn’t know about -something like he had to sit down for a bit cos he felt ill due to not having meds that the teacher didn’t know about and got shouted at?

And I don’t speak to the teachers like a sales pitch
That’s hilarious
Maybe worth a try now I think of it!

No, yelling and meds not at all connected

Teachers are constantly under attack from parents, not surprised they are defensive by default

sweet
Ok, so putting myself in the school perspective (as much as I can, this place seems odd).
Reasonable to brief teachers, nothing to justify being funny with you. A simple round robin would have sufficed.

Saying you want a tick list would have really rubbed me up the wrong way if I'm honest (and that's someone who has backed parents 'against' colleagues on some issues).

There seems to be a few issues coming through again, meds vs telling off vs consistency.

Meds, I wouldn't say everyone needs to know everything. If there's a revolving door of staff for a subject then they don't (unless I've missed something) all need detailed briefing. What should happen is a simple 'if X is unwell, get a peer to escort him to Mrs Blogs or Mr Smith'. Nominated staff normally deal with that sort of thing.

Consistency - different sport and different staff seems to be a standard part of games. I'm not sure lack of consistency there would be a reasonable complaint.

Behaviour / incident being yelled at and not knowing why - as ever, I always advise caution, yelling or firm voice? No reason or no reason that i like? (Only say because just today I'd kept a student back for 'no reason'. There was a reason. They didn'r agree the reason warranted being kept back).

Keep the main thing the main thing and focus on that. Like PP, I'd go down the route of seeking a simple plan to follow for DC with a nominated person/people for medical issues.

But the teacher on this occasion probably had no idea that ds has a neurological condition, one that can show itself via behaviour.
At my meeting with the main games teacher, he agreed that all games teachers who come into contact with ds would benefit from knowing he has the condition for two reasons 1) easier to handle if known 2) meds have serious side effect that are more likely to present during physical activity

If this isn't one or two teachers but your regular experience, think about what the common factor is in all of those situations.

This vaguely sounds like a issue I have at school where there is a pupil with a vague genetic/neurological issue that the edpsych/her doctor don’t seem to be able to give us much info on - and most of it’s confidential so only the gist of it will go to teachers. It’s not always possible to brief all staff on this (if it’s supply) and what’s more some it’s very unclear how much of her behaviour is learned and how much the result of her diagnosis.
So it’s not always perfect but she’s never at risk - she might get told off by a supply teacher who didn’t know she had a condition but tbh i wouldn’t expect her mum to contact school about it unless it was something like a unwarranted detention or exclusion she wanted to contest.

Thank you
All this helps with how I structure my meeting with the head

Here's where YABU: It strikes me that for whatever reason the teaching profession feels under attack - rightly or wrongly, and it feels like communication is difficult.

"The teaching profession" - based on this particular experience in this school.

If I said 'I find people who work in sales pushy beyond belief and usually very rude and aggressive', would that be fair? Reasonable?

On a side note
Why would it not be something all ds should be aware of?
If a child was partially deaf or blind then it would help if his teachers knew, right? So if he has a clear diagnosis, why not work with it.

Caribou58
Yes if you said that it would be reasonable
And
Yet again, this is just one example in this one School over many years being a parent. Absolutely not basing this feeling in just one experience

Yanbu Op

Parents evening again today. Dd form teacher is so defensive if we ask any questions. Don't find the rest of the staff too bad but she's a nitemare.

I think it's worth remembering they have responsibility for the students all day. So it is the equivalent of your mother in law coming up to you and asking "did little Johnny brush his teeth before bed". You know it's your responsibility to make him brush his teeth, so it ruffles your feather a bit maybe? Parents get sensitive back as well when teacher says e.g. 'what is his bedtime', 'did he eat breakfast today' etc.

Teachers should be aware of it - if it’s supply though then they won’t necessarily be able to access the school systems to find out, I don’t know if this teacher was but it’s seems plausible. I think YAB a bit U over this particular incident - however I can see that there might be a larger issue with the schools sen policy. Maybe you could ask for him to have ‘pass’ that he can present to any new teacher in games? A couple of our pupils have time out cards they can show a teacher if they need to leave class for a minute or two to calm down. He could have a ‘I’m on medication for x and if y happens I need to do z’ card maybe?