To find teachers a bit bloody defensive / precious

[SweetFanniAdams]

Just find myself feeling the need to pussy foot around issues so as not to offend dc’s teachers. Not just isolated to the odd one over the years, but seems to be a theme that when ever I try to interact, understand what’s going on (with a view to support their work at home) that I get very defensive responses, like I’m questioning their teaching or decisions or something.
Bloody exhausting.
I’m very direct and find I have to spend a huge amount of time planning and thinking about what I want to say so as not to be offensive or misunderstood. I wish I could just communicate freely.
Is this just something that happens to me?

tbh I always found senior management at dd's primary incredibly defensive when it came to SN issues

in her case, not behaviour issues but simple issues like accessibility and being allowed to use the disabled toilet

teachers were sometimes kinder but refused to do anything about it (refused as in, "could you speak to the HT yourself about this because I'd rather not")

receptionists very negative and voiced their opinion that dd was making it all up in her hearing (and in mine)

but basically, the whole thing trickled down from above- until the day the HT left and then there was just a complete about-turn by everybody from management to the receptionists- suddenly they were all sympathetic and anxious to give support

Holmesbird how can you get on with your job if you are not prepared to be briefed, and to ensure that any casual teacher is briefed (as a safe-guarding issue), on any SN that may be relevant to the child you teach?

I found that happened repeatedly at school: dd got told off for not being able to do things or was put at risk by being made to do things that were dangerous for her. In the meantime her medical file in the HTs office and was not shared with the rest of the school. "just let us get on with our job" was exactly the attitude taken by the school.

It sounds like a difficult situation. It doesn't seem like they've got much in place. Email, keep it brief and clear with a focus on what you want to achieve.

If you say you're having multiple run ins with multiple teachers over the years then I'd honestly be inclined that you may well be the common denominator in all of this. (Like I say, I say the same to teachers who claim they always have issues with parents and I think the same about friends who regularly seem to have issues with bosses. When the same issues keep reappearing, it's time to consider your contributions).

it sounds like communications and things have gone really wrong
could you simply go in an say that - sort of an olive branch
from you perspective you really want to get it right for your son as ut sound like stuff isn't going well and you feel that communications aren't working so can we sit down and work it out together

corythatwas

Yes! This absolutely!
I want to help and a little bit of help sharing info and coaching home may just make their lives easier but it’s like I’m saying they are shit teachers or something.

I think I’ve talked myself into making an appointment with the head again (not the first time) and will somehow try to be all meal and delicate with her ffs

Your ds was yelled at for poor behaviour.
Your ds most likely minimised his behaviour.
You now think it was minor and want an explanation?
You disnt think the email gave a good wnough explanation.

That doesn't sound like working together to make things easier all round.

Do you know how much time youre taking up?

grasspigeons
That’s how I started the conversation at the last appointment
It was the first time in 3 yrs I’d met him as he doesn’t engage in the annual parents evening, he sends another teacher.
I just found it odd that ds seems to only get in trouble in games (not odd knowing his condition) but non of the games staff ask or want to meet with me to chat it through.

C0untDucku1a

Completely wrong!
I knew there would be more to it
I wanted to understand so I could coach ds at home to try an avoid it happening again (and again and again).
I didn’t question his punishment or the need to discipline (regardless of if I agreed with it or not - which after discussion- I did) but I wanted to discuss how I could learn more about what kept happening in these lessons so I could try and help prevent.
Why is this so hard to grasp

And the email response gave no explanation hence the request to meet

And one meeting and one email in 3 fucking years is not taking up much time - that is ridiculous

tbh I wondered if I was the common denominator until

a) dd's consultant visited the school and was horrified by the answers given her by senior management

b) Social Services visited the school and were not impressed by what they found

c) dd's childminder started fuming about it

d) everything changed as if by magic when the HT left

I think you may have your answer OP from the reactions to your post!

I had a similar situation last year, my main decision cc then was to get my husband to deal with any future school issues, it was that frustrating. I get what you are saying about plannning what and how you say it. Thought it was just me having issues but months later found out I was not alone.

should have added:

e) spoke to other parents of children with SN and found they had all individually been made to feel they were the common denominator in any problem with the school

some of the responses are classic

And one meeting and one email in 3 fucking years is not taking up much time - that is ridiculous
But earlier you said it was a couple of things a term, which is unusual.

It does absolutely sound like school communication is poor. They should be much better equipped to deal with situations in my opinion.

It does feel (maybe I'm wrong and am barking up the wrong tree) like maybe there's more to this situation

Thanks corythatwas, I try to keep myself to myself and don’t chat load with other parents but perhaps I should ask around as a sense check that I’m not some neurotic loon

Yes, sometimes this can be the case. I have suspected similar condition in my eldest (currently under assessment) and have repeatedly suggested in a nice way that, while methods of teaching and discipline may work on your common or garden kid, they don't work on mine. Nothing personal to them. She just can't learn that way. It should be easier with a diagnosis, though, and you should definitely expect to be heard. I have heard that private schools are not as good as state schools in that respect because they aren't bound by OFSTED

MaisyPops
Up to recently I have directed my meetings to ds form tutor and SENCO but this last time I went straight to the source of the issue. Seems I’m quite the maverick

Yanbu to ask why this teacher seems so defensive. Yabvu to tar teachers as precious or defensive. That then makes it look, imo, like perhaps this teacher has a reason to be.

Is it just this teacher? Its very odd that he wont work with you. Either he doesn't take criticism (even if its just perceived) well, or you are doing something to make him defensive. It could even be a bit of both. If it's just him I would consider trying again and going over his head if needs be.

Made to feel like I was a right royal PITA and he was a ‘professional’ and knows what he is doing and I should mind my own business

I started off with the first post thinking this was about supporting your son academically at home, but it turns out to be something else entirely (behaviour and communication regarding meds/needs). Why not just start with that?

Discussion needs to be with SENCO and teacher. I'm wondering if you've been in 2-3 times a term and things are not resolving, and the teachers are being defensive, that they have suggested things that you disagree with and they feel their views/advice have not been taken on board? Could they too feel there is an "Us vs Them" with you and that's why they are coming across dismissive?

I've been a parent on the receiving end of it from a teacher, but I now work in a school and I have a lot more sympathy for teaching staff now seeing what goes on behind the scenes. I do however think some teaching staff can be dismissive as can anyone be in any job.

Moving forward, meeting SENCO and teacher, you could just ask that your intention is just to do what is best for your DS and what it is you want to achieve ie the sharing of information regarding meds and needs. I would look at their policy regarding behaviour, as this is what you agreed to when you joined the school (as you say detention doesn't work, is it in the policy?). I would write down exactly what you want from the meeting with a follow up meeting in a months time to assess if it's being met or any issues.

Op I also work in customer facing role. And find similar issues with private school teachers

In state schools you have to report to parents via parents evening 3 times a year minimum

Do point me to this quaint piece of legislation because we only every had one per annum

Ok, so the 1-2 things a term has been to form tutor and sendco.

I'm with it.

For me (form tutor), what would be common practice is:

General pastoral issues / we've heard a few things across subjects could ypu have a look into things = form tutor and then up the pastoral chain

SEND needs - key worker or SENDco, as a tutor I wouldn't typically be involved in those meetings. SEND needs get agreed and info shared out to staff who need to know it (usually via student SEND profiles or a quick meeting)

Subject issues / where behaviour issues are specific to a subject - class teacher and then escalate to head of department and senior leadership

It sounds to me like the school don't have a clear chain of who deals with what and where issues get dealt with.

If your situation happened in my school, you'd probably speak to class teacher, class teacher would probably have a chat with SENDco to see if they've missed anything, agree way forward / head of department does that. Then agreed strategies go forward.

What's been suggested on your side so far? What's been suggested on their side so far?

ShawshanksRedemption
Thank you.
I’d love some suggestions from them, I’d support them wholeheartedly.
This is just one example and happens to be more behavior than academic but my intentions are the same for both.
I wonder if those who suggested that the defensiveness may come from a lack of knowledge of ds condition? Is there a way I can help them understand more? I genuinely believe just a few tweaks would help them so much but fear being shot down or shut down.
SENCO is great but just doesn’t seem to filter out to the actual subject teachers.
How much training to general non teachers get on something like ADHD? How up to date is it? Is there an requirement for annual training type things like in other professions? I really don’t know and wouldn’t dare to ask in ds school

I think you’re right that the teaching profession feels under attack - it does a lot of the time as far as I can see. It’s definitely not all teachers though - sounds like your son’s school is lacking a proper ethos around inclusion/a decent senco. But really i think it’s not surprising you have to put thought into a conversation about this - it’s a sensitive topic and there are accusatory sentiments involved, possibly on both sides. It’s not a style of conversation that is similar to a sales pitch at all!
I think it might be better to accept that this conversations will demand some prior thought etc - as it should on the part of the teacher too. Imagine if a teacher just said “ to be direct your son’s a twat in PE”, that’d be terrible! They might feel they’re having to pussyfoot around you.
Does sound like the school needs a better approach to your sons need’s though from what you’ve said.