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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder why anyone votes tory?

893 replies

traciebanbanjo · 18/06/2018 21:10

All they seem to represent us keeping the rich, rich and the poor, poor. There doesn't seem to be that many rich people so why do they get so many votes?

OP posts:
Cattenberg · 20/06/2018 15:10

The one good thing about Brexit is that if when the Tories make a hash of it, they'll have to take responsibility for their actions. This is one mess they can't pin on a previous Labour government.

Of course, the right-wing tabloids will try to blame Remainers, the EU and foreigners for the fallout from Brexit. In short, everyone except Leavers.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 20/06/2018 15:11

May might have had a miserable election win but it was a win, she is still the Prime Minister and in a stronger position than Angela Merkel.

Without the 2017 election the next one would have been in 2020, probably before we have properly left the EU. Which would have left it possible for a Labour party to get power and stop Brexit.

Because May just about won the election she has ensured Conservatives will be in power until at least 2023 so they can ensure a full and proper Brexit happens. In the respect Theresa May's gamble payed off, and for that I thank her.

IslaBoots · 20/06/2018 15:11

Who are 'those people' ?
Have you got figures?
Do you know how difficult it is to get benefits if you are fit and able?
Do you know the government spend millions to take genuinely sick people off benefits?
Do you know people have died or committed suicide as a result of this government's welfare policy? Do you give a shit?
Does it bother you wealthy people and corporations are not paying the tax they should and the amount avoided is far, far more than paid to any benefit fraud?
Do you prefer wealthy people to have more because of this rather than vulnerable people getting what they need?
Stop believing the demonising of the poor ffs!

My children and 20 and 16. They know lots of "These people". The 20 year old was in school with lots of people - lots of now who are "single parents" living in social housing with their rent being paid by the government and having very decent benefit allowances. Most of them have at least 2 children- most by different feckless fathers - who have fucked off and let the taxpayer raise his kids.
I'm happy to say both my children are appalled by what they see and the morals of "These people" who they used to call friends.

My 16 year old has just left school. Within her year 3 girls have ended up being 'single' parents this year. All have been housed with baby being brought up on benefits. Two of the fathers are still around but they don't live together... Oh no!

If the government weren't so free to hand out benefits maybe the parents of these youths would instill some morals and values. I'm sure they would if they had to take financial responsibility for their children's 'mistakes'.

I live on the outskirts of a large council site. The majority of the council tenants are able bodied but unemployed. Lots are 'single' parents but their children's father doesn't live with them but is round their house every night - all night. Strangely these are the men who work. Don't pretend couples don't live apart for the purpose of benefits.

There is a woman living across the road from me. She's perfectly fit enough to attend the gym every day. She has 8!! Children. All with different fathers. She's on a nice little earner from the taxpayer. Don't pretend people who don't work, can't work through disability.

Look at the number of threads on here where someone asks should they dob in a benefit cheat. They get called all sorts of names on here. Let's be honest there are a number of benefit cheats on this site alone. Anyone not claiming benefits fraudulently would not stand by and allow 'these people' to get away with it. Simply because they are defrauding the government at the taxpayers expense.

The taxpayer has had enough. We all have eyes. We all see what goes on around us. Except those who are happy to turn a blind eye because they are happy to sit back and leech off others! And refuse to see that benefit fraud is becoming a big problem. You don't call it benefit fraud because as it is always stated here 'If a couple don't live together they are not together. Most of the benefit claimants I know have a partner and share children. They don't live together on paper only - for the sole reason of defrauding the government so they are able to claim more money.

That is pure greed and selfishness!

Don't pretend people who are claiming benefits are on the poverty line. They get benefits in line with an average working wage. Without having to put the hours in.

auntiebasil · 20/06/2018 15:12

Totally agree that not everyone should go to university. I'm also from a poor background with no "history " of going to Uni. Dad left school at 14 (back before the war). I got a full grant at Uni . I got a place because I was academically good enough. It is shocking that there wasn't enough for people who weren't academically good enough but the solution to that wasn't Uni.

topcat1980 · 20/06/2018 15:19

"My children and 20 and 16. They know lots of "These people"

Anecdote and not in line with the actual data, perceptions are tainted by your prejudices.

TammySwansonTwo · 20/06/2018 15:21

islaboots well why don’t you go and live on benefits then if it’s so bloody easy? Because you know what you’re saying is bollocks.

And wait, a poster earlier was saying that the tories were effective on getting all the workshy scroungers off benefits - which is it?

TammySwansonTwo · 20/06/2018 15:23

Oh and then there’s this:
www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/22/record-britons-in-work-poverty-families-study-private-rented-housing

You clearly know bugger all about this

topcat1980 · 20/06/2018 15:23

"If the government weren't so free to hand out benefits maybe the parents of these youths would instill some morals and values."

You don't sound like you have any morals or values yourself.

PS. If we are going to start talking about benefits culture shall we talk about the tories moving who swathes of people onto incapacity benefits in the 80s and 90s to hide them from the JSA claimant count figures.

Ohmydayslove · 20/06/2018 15:40

topcat

What 2 assertions that I told you I voted remain do you not understand?

Typical
Champagne socialist! You don’t listen so you.

And no intention of tellIng you specifics on where I live.Hmm

Forget Brexit. Get a credible leader and make labour electable.

Still as you say you are very rich so a tory government serves you better while you can sop your conscience by telling everyone you are a labour supporter.

You and others like you well off Corbyn supporters should hang your heads in shame at what you have done to labour and by doing so allow the tories to do to the country

sacredgeometry · 20/06/2018 15:57

I became a member of the Conservative Party after being Labour all my life. I suppose i did not become politically awake until about 10 years ago.

I was bought up in a Working class environment and was "taught" to hate tories, As a student i thought the left were going a bit too far even 25 years ago.

As i moved on and saw what left wing politics really is it was inevitable that I had to change.

Im sick of Labour using the poor and disenfranchised for political gain, they do not want them to move up, they need them to be poor and disenfranchised!

I disagree with some Conservative ideal but on the whole sit with the party on more issues than not.

TammySwansonTwo · 20/06/2018 16:00

*As i moved on and saw what left wing politics really is it was inevitable that I had to change.

Im sick of Labour using the poor and disenfranchised for political gain, they do not want them to move up, they need them to be poor and disenfranchised! *

Absolute nonsense. Where’s the evidence of this?

You’ve seen what it really is and that’s... what exactly?

Ohmydayslove · 20/06/2018 16:05

I think what’s so unnattractive about both front benches is their lack of basic likability. You just can’t like Corbyn May Abbott, Rudd. They all come across as career politicians with no convictions.

There is a difference in competence though! Small though that might be.

Remember John Smith, Paul Boetang?? Shirley Williams? You belived they actually wanted to make a difference and to help people.

This shit showers just want personal power.

I still like Yvette though and I think she is a genuine person who could lead well.

Well it’s the tories for another decade unless labour sort their act out.

topcat1980 · 20/06/2018 16:06

You made assertions about Brexit and immigration, I asked you to clarify them. I asked you which bit of the midlands cause you said it was all about immigration, I went and had a look at the demographics of Birmingham and found that whilst it has the highest immigration levels in the midlands, the number of EU migrants is extremely small about 2% of the population and further for example only 0.8% of people speak Polish as a first or second language.

A conservative govt doesn't actually serve me well because I don't benefit at all from a divided society, we all benefit from a well cared for, well resourced society. Like the northern European models that the Labour manifesto was based around.

No need to hang my head at all. Empty rhetoric is all you spout.

I did listen, I asked you to tell me what the problems in your area with immigration are.

But like others who complain about immigration, you will find that actually the blame is being apportioned to the wrong place.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/06/2018 16:14

Tammy I didn't need to Google Michael O'Sullivan's case since I was already aware of it - aware, too, that while I agree it sounds concerning on the face of it, the gentleman was deemed to have had a long history of MH problems, and in particular that this is said to be the only Coroner's warning there's been about the "risks" of work assessments - which may well be why the Chief Coroner reportedly refused to take any further action around the issue

I confess this surprised me, given the constant insistence that "thousands" have died as a direct result of the policies. After all, Coroners have nothing to lose by speaking up - they're actually required to issue RFDs where they perceive a genuine risk and those documents are made public

So while poor Mr O'Sullivan was made into quite a cause celebre at the time, it hardly seems possible to draw conclusions from his case ... far less that there are "thousands" like him

MissionItsPossible · 20/06/2018 16:49

@Ohmydayslove
Don’t be silly. Come to the midlands where I am. High immigration and voted Brexit

I believe you. My area (in the Midlands) is very multicultural too, in a Labour stronghold where they won by 80+% in the last election. It was also the strongest in my immediate area to vote for Brexit with over 75%. People are angry and it's not aligned to one party.

London is not the UK.

Gottagetmoving · 20/06/2018 17:49

You just can’t like Corbyn May Abbott, Rudd. They all come across as career politicians with no convictions

You know fuck all about Corbyn then?

Cattenberg · 20/06/2018 18:16

We're all free to vote however we want for any reason. But I find it sad that so many people on this thread vote Tory for negative reasons (don't like Labour, or Corbyn) than for positive reasons (agreeing with Tory policies, preferably on a range of issues).

I once knew a really nice woman who voted Tory because Thatcher had made it possible for her to buy her first home. That's a positive reason although later generations weren't so lucky.

NoNotheresnolyrics · 20/06/2018 18:26

Cattenberg Myself and thousands of people have managed to buy a home under conservative leadership....

auntiebasil · 20/06/2018 18:27

I don't vote Tory. Hell would have to freeze over first.
But I can't in good conscience vote for this Labour leadership team. Different and better team, I would vote Labour.

Nerdybeethoven · 20/06/2018 18:29

I ask myself this every single fucking day. Too many Daily Mail readers? I seriously find it very worrying. Similarly who the fuck voted for Trump. Living in dark times.

TammySwansonTwo · 20/06/2018 18:29

How do you think a coroner would prove that a suicide was related to the DWP unless a letter was left to that effect?

You think the large correlation in suicides and withdrawal of disability benefits to those people, who couldn’t afford to live without them, is what... a coincidence? You think underlying mental health issues in people with chronic illness, on disability benefits and who commit suicide are a surprise and undermine the link? Look at all the heavily redacted peer reviews released in 2016

So much apologism, so little empathy. Not sure why I’m surprised.

And of course there’s this: www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/27/inquiry-into-disability-benefits-deluged-by-tales-of-despair

And this: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/disability-benefit-claimants-attempted-suicides-fit-to-work-assessment-i-daniel-blake-job-centre-dwp-a8119286.html

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/desperate-disabled-gran-attempted-suicide-11541322 - zero fucking points?!

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/909354/theresa-may-deidre-brock-dwp-benefits-payments-suicide-row - what are they hiding exactly do you think?

And a current case being investigated: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5572663/DWP-investigated-suicide-mother-nine-benefits-stopped.html

I get that it may not be nice to acknowledge voting for a party that treats vulnerable people this way, but it’s fucking disgraceful to deny the issue

NoNotheresnolyrics · 20/06/2018 18:32

I’m a green voter, but I really really don’t understand where this idea came from that if you vote Labour your a nice, clever type of person.

The last time labour were in power it was a muderous and economic disaster.

Cattenberg · 20/06/2018 19:03

I'm a Green voter too, NoNo. I was no fan of Tony Blair, but I do remember the economy booming under New Labour until the global Financial Crisis, which originated in the USA and was hardly their fault.

By the way, I remember the 2Unlimited parody in your username, but I can't remember who did it. Was it French and Saunders? Spitting Image?

TammySwansonTwo · 20/06/2018 19:14

Funny how people forget the global part of the global financial crisis, eh? I’m no fan of Blair and Brown but come on now (and let’s not forget the origins of the system that caused it all)

Metoodear · 20/06/2018 19:20

TammySwansonTwo

Shall I post links to the articles about people killed as a direct result of the Middle East police of Blair and bush and some would say all this Islamic nuts steam back from the labour poddle Blair
Tory’s killed ... number of people labour have killed ..... oh yes labour win this one finally something labour have one