to wonder why anyone votes tory?

[traciebanbanjo]

All they seem to represent us keeping the rich, rich and the poor, poor. There doesn't seem to be that many rich people so why do they get so many votes?

Leah did you actually read at article?

The answers show the strong viewsd people have and that's great. I want people to have views rather than not think about issues. It also shows the uphill struggle labour will have to wrest power next time. Gordon Brown finished in May 2010. That is quite a long time for the country to have rejected Labour even by UK standards where we usually have swings back and forwards. If the Tories win next time and it is in 2022 (it might be sooner) that will take us to 2027 which is good news for me and the country.

If Labour want to try to get elected they need to change some of their policies and actually listen to what most people want - not just a few of their supporters but most voting adults.

Because some people are grownups who realise that if you want something you need to work hard and pay for it.

Because some people are grownups who realise that if you want something you need to work hard and pay for it.

Spoken like a true Tory.

All of the disabled people I know are grown ups. Many have degrees, many have worked all their lives until they no longer can. Could happen to anyone, could happen to you. Someone asked what a more holistic approach to assessments means - oh gee, I don’t know. Maybe basing someone’s claim on the opinion of their experienced medical practitioners rather than an assessor who often lies and receives a bonus for getting through as many assessments in a day as possible rather than actually assessing claimants properly. Maybe not having ridiculous criteria like “can walk 20m” when being able to walk 20m in no way guarantees a person can access transport, shops, healthcare and so on.

The single mothers I know are grown ups. They work, but the work doesn’t cover the cost of living.

Every worker I know is a grown up, and yet the pay gap between regular workers and directors has increased by obscene levels in the last three decades. People do work to pay for things, but the work doesn’t pay. Zero hours contracts, pay freezes, give me a break.

The people I know, including myself, who rely on the NHS are grown ups who’ve personally experienced the effect of the Tory starvation of funds. It’s clearly working, based on all the posts here about how the nhs can’t work - the public are perfectly primed to not kick up a fight as it’s dismantled even further.

The increased number of people in this country dying from malnutrition were grown ups too - guess they didn’t work hard enough. www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/05/figures-show-rise-in-malnutrition-deaths-in-england-and-wales

I cannot conceive of the viewpoints listed here where the tories are somehow the saviour of the working classes, supporters of children of colour and their education - do me a bloody favour. It’s like Stockholm syndrome.

I believe in a system that supports the vulnerable, because I’m a decent human being. I believe in a system where corporations aren’t enlisted to help write tax laws that benefit them, and where there are tens of billions of uncollected tax a year (in some years, more than the cost of tax credits).

I’m no Blair supporter and frankly New Labour and the tories weren’t a million miles apart, but I do believe that this country needs a radical shift in its government to sort out the catastrophic way in which corporations have been able to shit all over the rest of us.

And I don’t say any of this to try and convince you - I’m more concerned about those reading who don’t know much about it and might not understand why what you’re saying is utter nonsense.

But, like the majority of the lefties here before me, I’ll be hiding this thread now as the Tory echo chamber nonsense is rage-inducing.

Well I work hard to pay for things...have increased hours, upgraded from ta to teacher and do a few extra jobs on the side like exam marking and care work. I struggle financially. I would never vote Tory.
I think a safety net is vital so that if you, I or any loved ones or even those pesky immigrants got into trouble and couldn't work there would be back up.
My former employers loved me. I was teaching in fe. They could not renew my contract due to funding cuts. Sorry to see me go but cannot guarantee work ( I suspect they can't afford to pay during the summer break ) and as I was on a zero hour contract they can't let me know till September if there will be more work.

Mind you even if I had a permanent well paid job I wouldn't vote Tory. Ask yourself if you want your kids to get help if they loose their jobs, become disabled or mentally I'll or even if they make poor life choices. Would you lecture them about working hard then?

tammy and malificent7 sum it all up really well. we all know that there will always be people that can manipulate and work and claim and all sorts, but these people are pretty rare. we all will need the welfare state one day for something, even Tory voters!
nobody knows whats round the corner for any of us.

And despite the simplified nature of the arguments, the Tories do not want to totally abolish the welfare state.

And despite all the emotionally charged responses that will no doubt follow, most people still seem to ignore that Labours last manifesto explicitly said they would not undo the majority of Caps and changes that the Tories bought in

Because Labour like killing children in Iraq et al and I haven’t forgotten....
Well the Tories were in support of all those dreadful acts of war - so if it REALLY bothers you, it's certainly no reason to vote Tory.

Agree with Tammy and Mal.

I'm really, really rich and I don't vote conservative, self made too.

"Labour's last manifesto explicitly said they would not undo the majority of Caps and changes that the Tories bought in"

That's because it funded other things that would help people, FSM, building of social housing etc. Once you correct the structural problems the sticking patch of benefits won't be needed by as many.

@TammySwansonTwo

Well said...totally agree.

Oh and its evident that Leah didn't actually read the article she posted, there was conflicting evidence on both sides.

I love also that she described Universities other than Russel Group as "shit".

Take it your degree isn't from one of them if you show such poor analysis of the benefits of education.

Lots of rage from the blue vote here, repeating soundbites, and fallacious attacks on Labour and the left with little or no basis in fact or reality.

As far as I can ascertain many Tory voters self congratulate that they have ' worked hard' and ' been prudent' with their cash and hate to see anyone get a slice of the pie. Of course I admire people who work hard and are prudent and they should be rewarded accordingly but that is not mutually exclusive with helping the vulnerable.

And as for the feckless...the kids shouldn't suffer. Plenty of politicians ate feckless...Boris Johnson has a love child for example.

Well I vote Tory and as I said I don't think benefits for people truly in need of them should be cut.
Don't put us all into one group.

I'd also like to draw issue with Xenia's statement about labour and point out that the Tories have only won one majority government since 1992, one.

I'd hardly say having to be in coalition twice in the last 8 years was a resounding backing for Tory policies.

Tory voters here are utterly revisionist about what happened at the last election. The Labour campaign was extremely successful, but started from a very weak position and the personal attacks on Corbyn et al by the majority of the press were astonishing. Even with all the odds against them they still wiped out a Tory majority which had been predicted to get even bigger.

Now the Tory vote on here blame the Tory campaign, even though it has far more funding, the advantage of the press onside, and a bit of breaking electoral rules going on.

This current government has no mandate for its policies, nor did the former coalition one. Its hardly a resounding endorsement of the Tory party.

The personal attacks on Corbyn are utterly deserved. I don't read the Tory press. I know how toxic the militant left are because I lived through Thatcher. She survived in power so long because there was no electable opposition. Kinnock tried but her had too many numpties clogging things up on the left that he couldn't get rid of.

It's too often assumed people who are poor don't work 'hard enough'
I've known women who do three bloody jobs and still don't earn enough to afford anything but the basics.

It's a tiny minority who expect something for nothing but the Tories would have you believe there's an army of people out there sat on their arses living a life of luxury at your expense.
Those who believe that have never gone through the benefits system...It's soul destroying and bloody difficult to get anything.

I am not revisionist about the last election. I would not have held it had I been May. However no one can dispute May remained leader and Corbyn did not win power. That is not in any sense revisionism but truth. I agree we have not had majority Tory rule since Labour lost office in 2010 but Labour has had no power at all. They have done very very badly.
In the last 5 years we had had a reduction of 2.5% of absolute poverty in the UK (which is very good news) the FT says today (although of course it goes on about relative poverty instead as it is left wing to the core sadly).

We do tend to get people pushing to the extremes on threads like this. Neither Tories nor Labour want no welfare state. The Tories are spending too much in my view and May got in because she was the most middle ground. Corbyn has no chance of getting in in 2022 unless he changes his policies and listens to most people. I suppose he might get a Brexit dividend of labour in power if we have a massive Brexit recession by then. I hope not.

There has been two elections since 2010, and in only one did the Tories win a majority, in the last election Labour gained seats, I'd hardly call that very badly, and yes I would say that its revisionist to claim it as Labour doing very badly.

I would say that after 13 years of Labour rule and the world's worst financial crisis since 1929, the Tories failing to secure a majority in 2010, that was not doing very well, but not badly.

Can you link to the article about poverty? It goes against all the other data available.

I love the fantasy that JC sort of won some sort of victory that doesn't involve actually governing - that is the only kind of victory he is capable of.
The election winner is the party that forms the government even if they are now in bed withDUP tossers.

No, not saying that he won a victory.

BUT Labour gained seats, and a % of the vote.

The Tories lost seats and their % of the vote.

Neither had enough seats to form a government, it isn't a victory for either.

But it isn't the failure that people now like to describe it as for Labour.

May lost a majority is being propped up by the DUP and has weakened her Brexit hand significantly. Hilarious. Her election gamble failed miserably

The Tory attacks lines were “friends with terrorists”, “coalition of chaos” and “no magic money trees”. Underlined with “strong and stable”

If Labour didn't win it's a failure. She failed miserably too but she is the PM and he isn't.
This isn't cheerleading your 7 year old who gave it a good old try but didn't quite get there.