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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How would you feel if a teacher did this to your child?

285 replies

Beenherebefore · 17/06/2018 21:36

Background -
Private school, in year 7. Good kid, all the teachers say so and so do I. Was head girl last year. Doing well, respectful yadda yadda.

So she was in a maths lesson. The teacher was a supply teacher. My daughter raises hand to ask teacher for help as she was stuck on a question.
As she was looking at her book and explaining where she needed help the teacher suddenly took my Daugher's head in her hands and snapped it up and round to the white board, said "read what it says and then speak to me" and then sharply turned her head back to her book and let go.

My daughter came out of school an hour later and told me about it immediately. Not one to make a fuss she told me it had hurt her and that while it didn't still hurt she could feel where it had happened.

I called the school. They said they would treat as safe guarding issue and meet me on Monday.

How would you play this?
I'm not happy and I want this dealt with but not sure how far I should take it.

Would you be as cross and upset as I feel about it?

OP posts:
Biblio78 · 19/06/2018 22:56

Oh I thought I could see the whole thread! If it's a member of staff it's really not on.

AreThereAnyLumpsInIt · 19/06/2018 23:18

@Feenie last teaching year for me was 2014 so... they've changed it in the last 4 years?

SoupDragon · 19/06/2018 23:38

If it were my daughter that teacher would have been shown forcibly by me why they dont touch my child

And how might that be?

Willow2017 · 19/06/2018 23:50

No one should jerk, twist or move someone's neck unexpectedly.

^This. Its not just safeguarding etc its bloody common sense you dont grab someone by the head and twist it without warning.
Doesnt matter what her 'reasons' were, a child asked for help not to be grabbed. If the teacher cant tell the difference she shouldnt be teaching.
All these apologists for crappy teachers, its always the kids fault, until it is proven time and time again that they told the truth. Funnily enough doing it in front of a classroom full of pupils gives ops dd plenty of witnesses.

And the fact that school are treating it as a safeguarding issue shows that they are treating this seriously, although the teacher should not be going on the trip with ops dd if they are following safeguarding rules.

Having had recurring pain in my neck for years due to damage done I am horrified that people think that to suddenly jerk someones head around is ok to do.

lisahpost · 19/06/2018 23:56

Soup dragon

By demonstrating on them exactly what they did to my child .... perhaps with a tad more force !

dorisdog · 20/06/2018 00:41

That's awful. That should be the end of their teaching career imo.

vinegarqueen · 20/06/2018 01:48

@arethereanylumpsinit

All of my safeguarding training since 2010 has stated that it is untrue that you should never touch a child under any circumstance and it is up to the individual school to set their own reasonable policies. However, considering that nobody should ever grab someone else's head and forceably turn it this teacher was bang out of order.

ilovesooty · 20/06/2018 01:56

@lisahpost I don't think you'd be in a good position to press charges after retaliating like that.

CanuckBC · 20/06/2018 02:08

That is so unacceptable! I hope you get some resolution. She should not be going on same field trip as your daughter while this is being investigated. They should be able to swap her out or get a supply teacher for the day.

And this would be a police matter IMO. A teacher assaulted her daughter. Why wouldn’t the police get involved? An adult illegally touched her daughter with no just cause!

Feenie · 20/06/2018 06:32

@arethereanylumpsinit - yes, as another poster has stated, training specifically states this is untrue.

ASauvignonADay · 20/06/2018 06:41

If anyone wants factual clarity around the 'rules', read the guidance: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/444051/UseeofreasonableeforceadviceeReviewedJulyy2015.pdf

Touch is fine when it is reasonable and appropriate.

lisahpost · 20/06/2018 07:06

ilovesooty

Child being abused by adult vs me retaliating .

I’d still be able to press charges but they could reciprocate . I wonder who’d get in the most trouble ?

SoupDragon · 20/06/2018 07:26

By demonstrating on them exactly what they did to my child .... perhaps with a tad more force !

Then you would also find yourself facing an assault charge and are no better than the teacher. Great example.

SoupDragon · 20/06/2018 07:27

I wonder who’d get in the most trouble ?

Both of you.

lisahpost · 20/06/2018 09:17

SoupDragon

Funny that you think it’s AS bad to physically abuse a child as to retaliate to the adult that HIT the child in the first place!

myheartgoesout · 20/06/2018 09:24

By demonstrating on them exactly what they did to my child .... perhaps with a tad more force !

My Dad threatened to do that in the 70's after a teacher had strapped my brother. Dad pinned him up against the wall and asked him to pick on someone his own size - mind you my Dad was bloody massive, so that was hardly a fair fight either. Funnily enough the teacher didn't take him up on his offer.

ragingmentalist · 20/06/2018 09:26

I’d still be able to press charges but they could reciprocate . I wonder who’d get in the most trouble ?

You hopefully, when she smashed your head in - treat it as karma. Violence doesn't solve violence in situations like this. You're no better than the teacher.

MotheringMilly · 20/06/2018 09:37

I have two teachers in my family and many friends so I know full well what I am talking about.

For all of those saying people that are overreacting for calling for Police involvement, we are not. I have heard of a few incidences from the horses mouths of this happening, it is not uncommon.

The allegation is assault, the school aren't the Police, they don't get to decide. If the teacher did nothing wrong or the evidence isn't there to support the allegation then the teacher has nothing to worry about.

It's amazing that people are defending this, would you seriously think it was appropriate to grab your own child's head and sharply twist it.

The teacher had no reason to place their hands on this pupil, end of story, it was a complete overreaction and totally unnecessary and sounds like at best it was done for dramatic effect to massage the teachers ego, at worst it was spiteful and intended to hurt. I'd let the Police decide.

Backstabbath · 20/06/2018 09:52

Motheringmilly.. you are making up your own version of events now, just to whip up even more hysteria.

Where does it say 'grabbing a child's head and sharply twist it'

We don't know what happened as we haven't heard from the teacher , all we have is a version of events from a 12 yr old.

SoupDragon · 20/06/2018 10:29

Funny that you think it’s AS bad to physically abuse a child as to retaliate to the adult that HIT the child in the first place!

Funny how you think it’s acceptable to retaliate with more force.

SoupDragon · 20/06/2018 10:30

No child was hit in this scenario anyway.

lisahpost · 20/06/2018 10:33

No child was hit ??? Her head was sharply pulled upwards . It’s amazing how many people will simply tolerate for children what they would not tolerate for themselves .

And damn straight I think I have the right to give a damn hard smack upside the head of any adult that thinks they have the right to assault my child . Bullies need making an example of !

MotheringMilly · 20/06/2018 10:45

Backstabbath....."snapped", whipped or twisted......they all mean the same thing in this context.

We aren't going to hear from the teacher are we. If the teacher hadn't placed their hands on the child then none of this would have happened.

I really like how the allegation isn't being treated seriously by certain people because it's a "12 yr old". It's no wonder that abuse of all levels went on in days past when in 2018 people don't take a child's word seriously.

Zebraantelopegiraffe · 20/06/2018 10:57

Hope your daughter is okay

LuluJakey1 · 20/06/2018 11:05

The range of over the top, ill-informed, inflammatory comments from some posters on this thread is MN at its worst.
OP has done the right thing in informing the school. They should now be investigating using their safeguarding protocol, which would include informing the LADO. The LADO will discuss with the Head and HR whether suspension without prejudice would be appropriate in this case at this point. The investigation will proceed. Interviews follow a protocol. This could all be resolved very early or could turn into something long and drawn out depending on what emerges during the investigation. The Head will keep in touch with the LADO throughout.

It would be best practice to keep a parent updated at least daily- although the school can not reveal details during the investigation.

Parent can report it to the police if they wish. At this point and from the description of the incident, the police (who also work with the LADO) would leave the school to investigate it. Our local police force would visit the Head to inform the school and enquire about the process and keep in touch. In a very serious case (eg an allegation that a teacher punching a student in the face or sexually assaulted them) they would also take immediate action and arrest the teacher.

A school doing this properly with this level of complaint, in the initial investigation, would not have revealed the nature of the complaint/ name of student to the teacher during the first interview. They would have told them a complaint had been made and asked them to describe the lesson - behaviours, any disruption, anything unusual that happened.

Similarly, they would not reveal to students the specifics initially- simply asked them to describe the lesson, behaviours, atmosphere in room, anything unusual that occurred. Students should be interviewed individually and write individual statements- not in pairs or groups.

Often now schools have CCTV which can help enormously in allegations of physical contact.

At this points a clear picture usually emerges and an investigation is either closed down or becomes formal as there is definitely a case to answer- which can then take a while to go through all the processes. The LADO and HR would be advising the school throughout this.

If this was my child I would have asked her to write a detailed account at home asap without me questioning her. It is too late now because once it has been discussed it is no longer uninfluenced. I would write my own account of what she said using her words as I recalled them.

I would keep a note of every communication with the school who I spoke to, what I was told.
I would expect a face to face conversation with the Head about the outcome- and to be taken through an account - without student names- of the investigation and evidence.

Teachers can touch children- appropriately.
The teacher will not be dismissed- even if it went to a tribunal. It is not an offence that warrants dismissal (as it has been described) unless it turns out that there have been other previous substantiated complaints of the same kind and the teacher has not responded to advice, training etc.
A parent can not dictate the sanctions a teacher should face.
Parents should not interfere in the investigation- eg talk to other children or parents or influence their child.
A parent has no right to speak to the teacher about the incident.
Parents who verbally or physically assault the teacher will be reported to the police and can expect an investigation also.

These are awful cases which can drag on for a long time. I have dealt with very complex ones that have literally taken months - with the police involved and a prosecution. They are very stressful for children, parents and teachers.

I have also dealt with ones where they are resolved by the school quite quickly eg the child exaggerated or even lied and the child admits that, there was a misunderstanding (you would not believe how often this happens with words but it would not be the case here), there was a misinterpretation eg a child felt humiliated, a teacher thought it was a joke and did not intend to embarrass, or a teacher put an arm out to stop a child leaving a room but a child interpreted that as a teacher attempting to grab them, or there was an incident but it is minor enough to be dealt with within school and does not require longer investigation but the teacher receives training or supervision and a conversation takes place between school, child, teacher to repair the situation, or a teacher receives a warning and is put on a period of training and an action plan.