Continuing the discussion around instagram influencers and ethics

[bawbles]

Continued from old thread

She sure is @EeebyMum

The questions may be rhetorical...I feel they are often used as a method of making a snidey / bitchy comment, masking it as false legitimate interest

Yep,if it was legitimate concerns they wanted to pose about the daughter missing school etc, fair enough. Kind of shows it up for what it really is when the word freebie is tacked to the front of every question and the word holiday though.
It sounds less like genuine questions and just bitterness.

Cady are you talking to yourself again?

Agree @3asAbird. If she was more transparent it wouldn't be an issue to me how much free stuff they get. They clearly enjoy the Neilson holidays as (I assume) they used to pay for them before they were instafamous so couldn't they just say "we're not paying for these holidays anymore as we have a business relationship with Neilson in return for us sharing information about our holiday" and then state the terms of their deal with Neilson (i.e. is it to post so many photos/vlogs about certain aspects like the kids club). Mark each post with the paid partnership tag and job done. Why are they so reluctant? As I've said, I can only assume it's because they want people to think they're wealthy enough to afford multiple holidays. And that is totally misleading.

Cadyheron

Using sentences like whose gang would you rather be in makes you sound about five years old and in the school playground which kind of feeds into the notion that they think over here's awful.
Somebody else has pointed out The questions may be rhetorical...I feel they are often used as a method of making a snidey / bitchy comment, masking it as false legitimate interest and I completely agree.

Why would people follow and then mask false legitimate interest? The only reason people would have these feelings is if they had followed these people in the first place out of interest? So you'd have an interest, follow and then maybe question things. I cannot imagine anyone going to the trouble of following people just to not like them and be snide and bitchy.
So for me, I started following the Meldrums, she seemed nice, 3rd baby on the way, he was fresh from working on rigs and I've followed them on IG and never watched their vlogs. As times gone on there's an awful lot of very sketchy promotion and ad like behaviour that's not disclosed, intermittent with both getting precious when questioned and having some unpleasant stories at times. They have a habit of sharing and asking for advice but then their choices seem to contradict any sdvice that's given.
How in any way is talking about that masking legitimate interest and just an excuse to bitch. The constant attempts to derail the thread with this utterly bizarre observation is fairly tedious.
I would say the same with FOD, it's gone from humerous, light bits of parenting to a hardcore sell on kids, is it masking legitimate interest to discuss?

Mark each post with the paid partnership tag and job done. Why are they so reluctant?

I agree with that, if anyone is getting the holiday for free, or been paid to post about them, then it should be disclosed on each post so that it's clear.
I mean, if it was posted on just the first one that it was an ad for example, any subsequent posts on the same holiday should be too as not everyone will have seen the first one.
It wouldn't be clear and it should be.

And also agree with @Fluffyrainbows. She shuts down any criticism or negativity (she's said she's taking a zero tolerance approach which means she deletes the comments I think) so she wouldn't answer any questions like this directly. They've shut down conversation on a platform they could contribute to so they can't complain if people do discuss their business on other forums.

I used to comment on these threads more when the conversation stuck to ethics a bit more, but of late, its all gone a bit weird, both here and on instagram. One thing did resonate, Cash's stories yesterday and her showing on screen evidence of almost stalking from mod, she commented 'what are they all so afraid of'. I'd love to know that too, what are they afraid of that they feel the need to behave like they do? ('they' being the big insta infuencers, and the behaviour being comment deleting, shooting down of an opinion that doesn't match their own, aggressive dm's etc)

You see on one hand I think who cares who watches stories but on another it is odd if that was Clemmie on holiday as I simply don't watch stories of people I have no interest in. I think the money, branding and ads have completely changed Instagram and there seems to be a definite hierarchy of accounts. The constant trying to shut down on here is odd too.

I would like to know (but don’t feel I can actually ask) if it was Neilson that asked them not to disclose the holidays were gifted or did they decide that themselves?
I don’t imagine it would get answered though.

@SpongeBobGrannyPants
Mark each post with the paid partnership tag and job done. Why are they so reluctant? As I've said, I can only assume it's because they want people to think they're wealthy enough to afford multiple holidays. And that is totally misleading
Surely it's more because they know that labelling the holiday as an advertisement would be less effective from a marketing perspective. Advertising companies want evidence that they have got good levels of engagement with sponsored content and the influencers know that a lot of their audience become disengaged once they find out that they are effectively watching a glorified advert.

As I said earlier, I was duped into thinking the Meldrums had paid for the holiday themselves and genuinely loved it so much that they were sharing it with their audience. I know that sounds naive but as a viewer I did think that these holidays must be really fantastic for the Meldrums to rave about them so much and I guess I processed what they were telling me in the same way I would process a a recommendation from a friend. I would not have thought the same if I knew the holiday was a freebie and the family were incentivised to sell the resort to their audience.

Also I think influencers are very aware of ad fatigue amongst their audiences so don't want to look like they have flooded their feeds with sponsored content. If you can get some ads to fly under the radar then this means that there is a greater ability to take on more paid work without it looking like you have completely sold out.

@nipersvest I guess it’s brand control, they’re so wary about protecting their feeds because it’s such a carefully constructed illusion, any dissent brings it crashing down.

That would make sense.

So the Meldrums think, Neilson will likely get more bookings via this if we don't mention it's an advert - bonus for us is that they'll then continue to give us free holidays.

So who's in the wrong do we think? Neilson or the meldrums? I mean the meldrums (should) have a responsibility to their audience to be upfront and honest but is it actually Neilson who are really at fault for not ensuring proper conduct with ad/gifting declarations?

I've wondered this before. When everything seemed to be personal recommendations was it much more effective in terms of sales, and now it's more open and disclosed is it far less profitable because people just switch off or scroll by?

It's definitely more effective when you think it's a personal recommendation. I do think some bloggers are careful about the brands they work with and will only recommend them if they believe the product/service is worth recommending. It has an impact on their own reputation too I guess, especially if they have a particularly niche audience and only certain brands would fit with that.

Yeah some of the heat needs to be directed at the brands too.

Everyone skips the pre-rolls on youtube. Everyone watches TV on Sky Plus now, or the internet, so ads are easier to ignore.

When influencers came along, brands were probably rubbing their hands together with glee. Here was a way to advertise to people by stealth. The influencers themselves probably didn't realise the levels of deception and manipulation they were colluding with at first. Naughty brands.

But consumers and audiences aren't thick. People noticed and they were pissed off. The #gifted type of loopholes have destroyed the trust in the audience's relationship with the influencer and with the brand. The influencers are defensive because they have more to lose. Brands can just drop instagram from their strategy and try something else. People will still want the brands.

The influencers' reputations are at this point basically being propped up by adoring fangirls. They shut down any line of questioning that might lead to them having to explain or justify their practices because they know that they can't without sounding like fame and money hungry narcissists. And their whole image is predicated on us believing they're not any of those things.

It all boils down to money and profile. It has to, otherwise what else are they doing it for? They've no bigger cause or message to promote. Just dresses and holidays. They're not trying to make the world a better place are they?

Although I do still think of MOD's comment on that St Lucia holiday and giggle - "I'm reviewing this holiday for you ". Lol. So kind.

Twas indeed a selfless act of hers. See someone asking her today if she had paid for her own holiday - guess it is to be expected with the luxury life they lead. It is good that all these influencers are being challenged, let's hope we see more of it........ that and somehow cracking the wondrous marketing opp that these mysterious dm's are.

Excellent summary bumpity. I think that sums the whole thing up in a nutshell.

Also I think influencers are very aware of ad fatigue amongst their audiences so don't want to look like they have flooded their feeds with sponsored content

If you're in collaboration with a brand to post content that you've been paid for, whether it's by money or say a three course meal in a restaurant that you get in return for a review, you're supposed to declare it.
You're not supposed to just hide it so if anyone is they shouldn't be, they should be disclosing it in some way.

Although I do still think of MOD's comment on that St Lucia holiday and giggle - "I'm reviewing this holiday for you ". Lol. So kind.

I did see this comment on her feed and thought I must have missed something because it must have been irony. I looked in the comments around it and tried to find something to suggest that she was joking, but I couldn't find anything. I still think she must have been joking because no one would be that much of a bellend, but to this day I don't know for sure

I would like to know (but don’t feel I can actually ask) if it was Neilson that asked them not to disclose the holidays were gifted or did they decide that themselves? I don’t imagine it would get answered though.

Why would they answer that, though? However nicely you ask it, it comes across as blunt and over invested.
Yes, they should be disclosing. Of course they should.
Taking it upon yourself though to say "hey! did you pay for this holiday or get it free? Oh and which one of you decided to hide it from everyone?" will have them thinking ooookay.....

That's probably why the Lady said she didn't feel she could actually ask the question. Interesting question though, are the brand and the influencer in cahoots not to disclose or are they both just separately keeping quiet about it and hoping nobody notices? Neither Neilson nor the Meldrums (Hi Spagbol!) have been willing to clarify the holidays were comped, we only found out because of someone on this thread's complaint to ASA.

I would be interested to ask Mrs Meldrum, MoD et al if they feel bad flaunting their lives to people on the backs of their childrens' right to a childhood but I guess that wouldn't be playing the game........

What is the new ask me a question facility on Insta or was Spagbol being facetious?

It’s new and all over instastories on my feed today.