To be fucking furious that a Tory MP just prevented upskirting being made a criminal offence?

[gracielacey]

Tory MP Christopher Chope has just singlehandedly prevented the passing of the private members bill supported by the government that would have made upskirting a sexual offence, by shouting Object.

Can I urge you all to leave a message on his parliamentary office answerphone and email him to ask why he thinks men should be entitled to photograph women's genitalia?

(Post Edited by MNHQ)

I'm somewhat depressed at the number of women on here supporting him. Have a look at the woman behind the bill, the loophole in the law and the problems with ever smaller cameras.
How anyone thinks that this man did the right thing is beyond belief.

Teaching them it is an unwanted intrusion is a far cry from criminalising them and putting them on the sex offenders register so their futures are totally blighted. do you really trust the powers that be to apply such legislation reasonably? They will go for the easy targets to boost their crime clear up figures.

I don't really know that I can put the feelings and future of a boy in front of those of a girl.

And yes, I have to trust elected officials and law courts to do their job... I am not a Freeman!

If you don't trust them, vote differently.

Why do you think there are human rights organisations and the criminal cases review commission? The authorities are just human beings with all of their failings and biases. Give them the power to wield and boy will some of them wield it.

Teaching them it is an unwanted intrusion is a far cry from criminalising them and putting them on the sex offenders register so their futures are totally blighted

Have you actually looked at the content of the bill?

It states quite clearly that only the most serious offences will cause someone to be placed on the sexual offences register - e.g. when the intent was to humiliate.

Personally, I have no problem with someone like that getting a criminal record and being put on the Sex offenders register - I certainly wouldn't want to employ such a misogynistic bully in my business.

If it doesn't bother you, then maybe you should employ the "harmless" young men who have criminal records as a result of deliberately humiliating their female classmates by attempting to photograph their genitalia.

@Speakeasy

I'm sorry but do we avoid making shoplifting a crime because kids sometimes do it? No. Juveniles will get lighter sentences and often be let off with a caution. But its still illegal and kids know the police will be involved if they do it.
Kids these days get taught about the dangers of posting things online and taking inappropriate photos and they need to learn that from a young age.

There are may things young boys do that are criminal acts now which could put them on the sex offenders register. That certainly is no reason at all to make it a criminal offence for anyone to invade the privacy of a woman.
As was pointed out up thread it has been a criminal offence in Scotland since 2010. Nowhere in Scotland have I heard an outcry that boys are being criminalised because they are using mirrors up girls skirts. Speakeasy you are just being pedantic.

Why do you think there are human rights organisations and the criminal cases review commission? Not being stupid I know they are there to provide checks and balances, to look at errors and to try to make laws more useable

The authorities are just human beings with all of their failings and biases. Yes... and?

Give them the power to wield and boy will some of them wield it. OK! So we should disbanc all hierarchical organsations?

The Bill would have gone through more stages before being passed, it has been worked on for quite some time and was very much a cross party idea.

After all of that, if a young boy acts in that manner then there should be some consequence - one that isn't simply "boys will be boys" That is ludicrous. This law wouldn't necessarily make him a criminal, it was more nuanced, even as a private members bill!

Speakeasy all I can say is you have a very strange idea of what is acceptable behaviour. We need this act to close the loop-holes in existing legislation, and if it means that some boys will suffer the consequences of unwanted behaviour so be it.

*Bill not act

Nowhere in Scotland have I heard an outcry that boys are being criminalised because they are using mirrors up girls skirts

The law in Scotland isn’t about mirrors up skirts. It makes it a sexual offence (under voyeurism) to take or distribute a picture of a woman’s genital area using the “upskirt” method.

If you’re going to try and argue using my country as an example, do at least try to make sure you know what you’re talking about please.

It absolutely should be criminal for a male to sexually invade a female’s space (I used male and female to include children). I have 2 boys and a girl and no phrase quite makes me grit my teeth like “boys will be boys”, that’s just a lazy ass excuse for people not to clamp down on behaviour that is inappropriate.

When it's younguns having a "laugh" I say tit for tat punishment. If they're going to look up skirts then fine, photos of their willys are going up on the town noticeboard!

"After all of that, if a young boy acts in that manner then there should be some consequence - one that isn't simply "boys will be boys" That is ludicrous."

The consequence should be detention or some such, not criminal action.

Detention? OK... It becomes clear that you have no idea about upskirting in real life...much like a certain politician!

Sodding Unicorns - obviously you haven't read much of the thread, I'm a Scot too and live in Scotland.
So the Scottish law is about phones - what do you think school boys are going to have to hand these days? They are hardly going to go and get a wee makeup mirror - when did us mums last have one of those? - when they can use their own phones and show all their mates instantly.

Detention? Omfg

You know that the person in a skirt hasn't consented to the pic right?

Up skirting is a far more serious crime than sharing a sext which is treated as a serious problem.

Would you really be ok if you or your child's upskirt pics were treated as a telling off offence on a par with chewing gum ?

@Doubletrouble99 if you’re a Scot and live in Scotland I have no idea where you came up with that pish about mirrors and wee boys

The point is that in Scotland, if a boy were to take a photo with his phone and then distribute it, he would be punished accordingly. In England and Wales (as it stands), he wouldn’t. Because a jumped up twat decided to twist the system.

And minimising sexually aggressive behaviour is a problem. If you don’t think so, you’re part of the problem.

But they can see (and photograph) more on the beach. This is over reaction to the point of hysteria. MeToo has a lot to answer for.

- my third ever!

For those of you who have contacted him, or someone else in the Tories about this (I contacted Brandon Lewis, the Tory Party Chairman), it will be interesting to see what response you get. I have so far only had the auto acknowledgement.

I haven't even got that! Mmm! Wonder if his inbix imploded

Actually if it's illegal and a big deal is made of it then it drums home the point it's completely unacceptable so boys won't do it anymore...

Also, what do you think should happen to the 40 y.o man. that does it to the 12 y.o. schoolgirl?!

Speakeasy are you here just to be a goady so and so? I cannot go into too many details but I have seen up close and personal the effects "upskirting" can have on a vulnerable young girl so if I was you I would just read the thread and be educated.

But they can see (and photograph) more on the beach

Well presumably if someone is on a beach with their tits out, they’re aware of it. Having a dirty little creep shove a camera up your skirt is entirely different.

DP caught an upskirt photographer when he was a security guard. Creepy little fucker had been doing it all over the Overgate in Dundee and it took them weeks to catch him. Wasn’t til he got lifted and DNA taken they realised he was a fucking rapist too.

Still think it’s hysteria? (Ridiculous misogynistic word used to keep women down btw. Shows a real lack of intelligence)