To be sick of women being told to exercise 'situational awareness'

[Quantumblue]

In Melbourne we have just had another sickening rape and murder of a young woman. A 22 year old comedian, walking home at 10.30 pm after finishing a gig. Through an inner city park where thousands of people walk, run, cycle and hang out each week.
The police response has been to tell women to exercise caution and situational awareness.
So upset at this loss ( she was at school with my nephew) and so upset that the solution is for women to be more aware. We are all aware of danger every time we go out our front doors.
RIP Eurydice

Yes always another opportunity always another place always another woman. Women not being out at night won't stop rape just move it elsewhere.

As I said, not just opportunity but also the confidence that they won't get caught.

What people are actually saying when they say dont walk in the park in case you get raped/murdered is in fact make sure that the woman who gets raped is someone else not you.

I think this is true. And, in an area known for sexual assault, good advice. Unfortunately.

Rapists are not going to stop assaulting strangers because they get educated or because a policeman announced what a bad thing they did. So the next best thing to protect women you love is to advise them to be careful. Until those on a mission to stamp out sexual assault actually do change the world, I'll be imparting 'stay safe' advice to my children (including issues of consent and control relating to their sexual partners) because being careful is better than being raped IMO. This is not a safe world so little point living like it is. But I really don't think that means the people who got raped weren't careful enough or even that it's being implied by police advising women to be careful - not everything works in reverse like that. Even if it were to be interpreted like that, I would still give the advice, within reason, to the women I love because I don't want them to be in the path of a predator if possible.

@littlerocketman

Statistically men are far more likely to be a victim of violent crime than women are. Why is nobody giving them advice on how to stay safe? Why aren't people trying to restrict them and telling them that it's better to be safe than sorry?

Plenty of men are being stabbed, attacked who are just walking down streets.

Yup.

Nobody tells them that they need to take precautions though. Nobody tells them that they shouldn't have been in that particular place at that particular time. Funny that.

I live in what was ‘Gunchester’. A combination of strong policing and the community pulling together and saying shooting kids in drug wars made it unacceptable and many guns were handed in. It’s rare these days that someone is shot in Manchester and when they are they’re usually heavily involved in organised crime or drugs. It is possible to reduce violent crime if there is a will to do so.

I refuse to believe that the only way you hold any chance to not be raped is to scurry around, following lots of rules, some of which contradict each other. We need to change the conversation from the concept that is inevitable that some woman is going to be raped and murdered, and the best we can do is to try our best to make sure we’re not that woman. It’s horrendous and throws more vulnerable women to the wolves as someone will always be vulnerable. We may not eliminate sexually violent crime but we can ensure everyone that commits it knows it is a crime and gets a long hard sentence for it.

Also it is horrendously tedious. I am tired of reading woman should not walk there, should not do this or that. Years and years I have heard it. And each and every day women are raped. It changes nothing. Maybe we could try some new strategies, have a new discussion. Who knows if we stop singing this tired old song maybe we will find something that actually works.

Exactly. For years women have taken various steps to take "personal responsibility ". They had marches,avoided certain places and times of day, took self defence classes, stayed in groups,took taxis, walked with a chaperone,wore whistles and rape alarms etc. Despite that ,every day women are still being raped and murdered.

It's not working..it never has.

So many hours out of 24 are dark. It is just a huge restriction on our lives that we have all internalised.

No matter what they do women are in the wrong. They have every choice dissected,analysed and put under the microscope until a reason why she is in the wrong is found.

Also this.

I was raped by a family friend in a relatives house. I was stone cold sober when it happened. I could hear my family laughing downstairs as he did it.

There were still people who managed to tie themselves in a knot trying to turn it back on me somehow.

"How short was your skirt?" (knee length and I was wearing tights)
"Why were you alone with him?" (because obviously all rapists come with flashing warning neon lights. And of course if I refused to be alone with him or any man then I would have the whole "paranoid man hating feminazi" thing thrown at me)
"You should have fought harder" ()

IME it doesn't matter what a woman does. If she is raped then there will be people out there ready to find something she did 'wrong' and how they would have done it differently.

PlantsArePeopleToo

Well, I would give advice about staying safe to my sons, especially in relation to knife crime and gang behaviour. But I can't speak for anyone else obviously. I think women are seen as prey by some particularly nasty individuals and that's what police/society (not necessarily male) are picking up on and reacting to when they advise women about certain things. I really don't get the impression that their agenda is to curtail women when this advice is given - it's more of a reaction to horrific crime. But that is only my opinion! And of course women can limit their exposure to danger (from strangers which is the type of assault being discussed mainly here) to a certain extent but never completely. But that doesn't mean one cannot become safer to some extent. And women can still make these choices.

I don't have a problem with society giving out messages that are specific to gender when it seems appropriate. It is deeply irritating that the message being sent out after a horrific rape is to women rather than the male perpetrator. At the same time, it has a lot to do with the pointlessness of telling off rapists and the desire to achieve something for other women going forward IMO. I think most people across the board are horrified by stranger rape (and of course should be horrified by all rape).

Plants. I am sorry that happened to you.

And I agree with every word you have posted.

when I was assaulted I was asked if I had been meeting him for sex. A 60 year old man who I had no interest in, never would have in a million years, utterly repulsive. Even by people who u think r good intentioned, they always somehow question the woman, even ppl u think wont do that :(

They can’t win, though, can they? If they say ‘go out, enjoy, don’t worry’ they will be destroyed if someone is raped and killed.

Everyone, though, should exhibit ‘situational awareness’. There are loads of areas in London I would not want to walk through wearing a suit. There are groups of youths that I would cross the road to avoid.

There is a very weird idea that if you tell criminals that they are responsible for stopping their criminality, they will.

No one is placing restrictive rules on behaviour or telling anyone what to do. There are suggestions that anyone can follow or ignore.

Well, the premier of Victoria did say that larry:

"Our message to Victorian women is this: Stay home. Or don't. Go out with friends at night. Or don't. Go about your day exactly as you intend, on your terms. Because women don't need to change their behaviour. Men do.”

Literally you can tell criminals not be violent, with support and resources as well as telling, and enough of them listen to reduce incidents of violent crime - when was the last time you heard Manchester be referred to as Gunchester?

Why do people think rape is inevitable like it’s a force of nature that is not controlled by human behaviour? Why the insistence that it’s silly to expect some men to not rape women? It’s so disheartening that in 2018, all people can do is shrug their shoulders and tell you not to go out after dark.

plants I’m so sorry for your experience and the attitude of some of the people you have told about it.

Why do people think rape is inevitable like it’s a force of nature that is not controlled by human behaviour? Why the insistence that it’s silly to expect some men to not rape women? It’s so disheartening that in 2018, all people can do is shrug their shoulders and tell you not to go out after dark.

Obviously, not all rape is inevitable. It's not silly to expect "some men" not to rape women. But we are talking about rape and murder in a park here which I think is inevitable. A psychopathic killer who waits in parks to rape and murder women is not going to listen to people telling him not to do it. All people can do is reduce their chances of being attacked by this kind of person. Or not. It is up to you.

All people can do is reduce their chances of being attacked by this kind of person. Or not. It is up to you.

Well, personally I've always found a balance between what I think is actually a life worth living, and trying to reduce my level of risk.

I'm far more likely to be killed in a car accident, but that doesn't mean that I don't travel in cars. I wear a seatbelt, but that's all I do. Because life without car travel, to me, would hardly be worth living. Just like life without being able to go where I want to, when I want to, would hardly be worth living.

I'm far more likely to be killed in a car accident, but that doesn't mean that I don't travel in cars. I wear a seatbelt, but that's all I do. Because life without car travel, to me, would hardly be worth living.

The fact that you are more likely to be killed in a car accident does not mean that the risk of driving is higher. It's because you will go on many more car journeys than spend time in a park late at night. An individual trip in the car is much lower risk than a late night stroll through a park.

Just like life without being able to go where I want to, when I want to, would hardly be worth living.

That is true. Everyone needs to weigh up the risks and benefits to them. Personally, I don't find avoiding deserted parks late at night has much effect on the quality of my life so I don't take the risk, especially as it is quite a high one. Other things are lower risk and I feel they are worth it.

If women only were raped and murdered by psychos in dark parks then it would be a sensible solution, but they are not and you can’t avoid everywhere and everything. No doubt if women lived in hermetically sealed bubbles made out of Kevlar, some psychos would love to get in and rape and murder them.

My odds of being raped and murdered in a dark park are very low, my odds of being murdered are low, my odds of being raped are relatively high. They will continue to be high whilst the focus is on why women should not do x, y and z and not why some men rape.

The fact that you are more likely to be killed in a car accident does not mean that the risk of driving is higher. It's because you will go on many more car journeys than spend time in a park late at night. An individual trip in the car is much lower risk than a late night stroll through a park.

I think you're being silly. I don't believe that the risk of walking in the park is much higher per individual event than the risk of travelling in a car.

In any case I think you're victim blaming.

I think you're being silly. I don't believe that the risk of walking in the park is much higher per individual event than the risk of travelling in a car.

Seriously?! Are you just pontificating or do you seriously believe that and wander around dark parks by yourself late at night?

In any case I think you're victim blaming.

I'm not sure how you translated what I said into "victim blaming". You have a strange thought process but that as your problem.

You have a strange thought process but that as your problem.

Play the ball eh, not the (wo) man?