To be sick of women being told to exercise 'situational awareness'

[Quantumblue]

In Melbourne we have just had another sickening rape and murder of a young woman. A 22 year old comedian, walking home at 10.30 pm after finishing a gig. Through an inner city park where thousands of people walk, run, cycle and hang out each week.
The police response has been to tell women to exercise caution and situational awareness.
So upset at this loss ( she was at school with my nephew) and so upset that the solution is for women to be more aware. We are all aware of danger every time we go out our front doors.
RIP Eurydice

Oh, how sad.

For goodness' sake - why on earth would anyone do such a thing?

I think the solution lies with everyone - male and female.

Ok, so again - what can women do to stop men raping us?

Women can't do anything that will put them at zero risk of ever being raped. However, some things will obviously reduce the risk to individuals (e.g. not walking in a dark park late at night) without having a huge impact on quality of life.

Yes, but that won’t reduce the number of potential rapes - as a PP said, it’s passing the rape onto a different woman. Plus, not walking home in a dark place alone at night isn’t keeping women safe - women are being attacked in broad daylight, while out running, in taxis...

Yes, but that won’t reduce the number of potential rapes - as a PP said, it’s passing the rape onto a different woman.

Obviously not but considering that society will never be able to totally prevent rape then it makes sense for women to reduce their individual risk. It is possible that will in some cases pass the rape to another but we don't know that for sure. It could be that if there is less opportunity there is less rape.

Plus, not walking home in a dark place alone at night isn’t keeping women safe - women are being attacked in broad daylight, while out running, in taxis...

That's like saying that there is no point looking before crossing a road because pedestrians are sometimes knocked over anyway. Just because you can't reduce the risk of something happening to zero doesn't mean that there is no point in trying to reduce the risk at all. Yes, women can be attacked in broad daylight but it is considerably less likely to happen than at night in a deserted dark park. Plus, quality of life would not be good if you stopped walking around in daylight whereas avoiding parks in the dark doesn't make much difference. You have to weigh up the benefits in terms of quality of life and having freedom with the risks.

My question was: what can women do to stop men raping us? Your answer didn’t address that, only how one individual can change their behaviour in order to reduce the risk - which might not work, because we’re actually not safe anywhere.

So again, what can women do to stop men raping?

@Dungeondragon15 in the case of opportunistic rape,it is very likely that someone will still get raped.
In the case of my maths tutor(groping not rape)there were other girls before me,once I left I'm sure there were others after. I didn't report it because I was 17 and had no support, and he was an esteemed Uni maths teacher.

I used to carry a lot of guilt for "passing the buck". Until I realised the blame laid on him first and foremost(we were in groups of 5-6,in his house with his wife and some at home) and the parents who sent us there despite knowing the rumours, despite having their own kid complain.

I can take steps to (in case of stranger rape) try and stop someone raping ME. It doesn't stop him from raping though. This is the problem we have.

Also, how many pedestrians are targeted on purpose? How many female pedestrians are deliberately run over by male drivers?

@Pumperthepumper women can stop being in the presence of men ,ever. Even being in a group doesn't make you safe.

You are looking at this the wrong way because it's an emotive subject. Would you tell someone they don't need to watch out for other vehicles on the road if they are in the right? Of course not. Is it right? No. Should women be able to walk in safety? Of course. Should they take responsibility for themselves? Absolutely.

You are looking at this the wrong way because it's an emotive subject. Would you tell someone they don't need to watch out for other vehicles on the road if they are in the right? Of course not. Is it right? No. Should women be able to walk in safety? Of course. Should they take responsibility for themselves? Absolutely.

I’m not looking at it in the wrong way at all - there’s nothing women can do to stop rape. It has to come from men, all men. I’m not sure why people are so reluctant to admit that, or why this is seen as a womens’ issue.

How many pedestrians are being deliberately targeting for being on the road at a certain time? Or by male drivers for being female? That analogy doesn’t work. Being raped isn’t an accidental thing.

My question was: what can women do to stop men raping us? Your answer didn’t address that, only how one individual can change their behaviour in order to reduce the risk - which might not work, because we’re actually not safe anywhere.

I did address that. We can't totally prevent rape. We can only reduce our individual risk.

@Dungeondragon15 in the case of opportunistic rape,it is very likely that someone will still get raped.

It's not necessarily the case that if one woman isn't raped another will be raped instead. Someone who rapes 15 women may have raped 16 if given the opportunity.

Fgs it doesn’t work! I’ve never walked through the park on my own at night but I’ve been a victim of sexual violence because I have been in the presence of men who commit sexual violence. Perhaps walking through the park at night is safer than working with professionals, who knows? This will fall on deaf ears though as there is no simple way of avoiding all men in general so we’ll have tons more posts about not going out on your own after dark, getting drunk, wearing heels etc etc.

What would make a difference is full condemnation from society in general and the authorities in specific, a commitment to investigate every rape and sexual assault case fully, guidelines for journalists so rape and sexual violence is reported in a non-suggestive and victim blaming fashion, and proper sentences for perpetrators. What we have is a mishmash of he said, she said and what did she do to prove she didn’t consent? Men and their agency to control their actions are glossed over.

To those who say this is reasonable advice, why do we NEVER hear it being dished out to men? Men get attacked in the street too, murdered etc, yet the police message is never, EVER, that men should be more careful about where they go at night, how much they drink etc. If the advice is so reasonable, why is it only ever aimed at women?

Also, how many pedestrians are targeted on purpose? How many female pedestrians are deliberately run over by male drivers?

I don't see the relevance of that. My point is that just because you can't totally prevent something happening, it doesn't mean that there is no point in trying to reduce the risk.

We can only reduce our individual risk.hmm

But we’re not! We’re still being attacked! How do you feel about men stepping up?

I'm a bad feminist on this issue. I don't believe for one millisecond that people are saying to their daughters 'yeah dark parks are fine, getting so drunk you can't run is fine, just do what you like because you have the right'.

They're all saying right on stuff publicly while urging their loved ones to take care of themselves.

Telling men not to rape doesn't really work. Men have raped women throughout history and I don't expect a rape free world in my lifetime. But I can try to minimise my risk, and I will. It won't make me impervious, but I'll probably be OK.

My question was: what can women do to stop men raping us?

The honest answer to this is to never befriend or have a relationship with, or live with a man. Stastically that makes you much safer. But then of course you’d be a feminazi man hater and be told NOT ALL MEN.

I don't see the relevance of that. My point is that just because you can't totally prevent something happening, it doesn't mean that there is no point in trying to reduce the risk.

The relevance is: you used getting hit by a car as an analogy for rape. Which doesn’t make sense because that’s not the same. There’s very little society can do for accidents happening, however tragic they may be. There is something that can be done about deliberate attacks - but women are not the ones who can do that something.

Loads of car accidents are actually crimes. Drink driving, banned drivers, excessive speed, etc. There is lots we can do to prevent deaths from these accidents.

Fgs it doesn’t work! I’ve never walked through the park on my own at night but I’ve been a victim of sexual violence because I have been in the presence of men who commit sexual violence.

That only demonstrates that you can't reduce the chances of sexual violence to zero. It doesn't demonstrate that you can't reduce the chance at all.

Perhaps walking through the park at night is safer than working with professionals, who knows?

If it appears that way it is only because women rarely walk through parks at night alone whereas they obviously will very often work with professsionals.

Telling men not to rape doesn't really work.

Do we really do that though? Look at the scoffing on this thread at even the suggestion that all men should take responsibility for a predominantly male crime. Rape is definitely seen as something for women to deal with, not men.