To be sick of women being told to exercise 'situational awareness'

[Quantumblue]

In Melbourne we have just had another sickening rape and murder of a young woman. A 22 year old comedian, walking home at 10.30 pm after finishing a gig. Through an inner city park where thousands of people walk, run, cycle and hang out each week.
The police response has been to tell women to exercise caution and situational awareness.
So upset at this loss ( she was at school with my nephew) and so upset that the solution is for women to be more aware. We are all aware of danger every time we go out our front doors.
RIP Eurydice

The relevance is: you used getting hit by a car as an analogy for rape.

It wasn't an analogy for rape at all. The two are obviously very different. I was making the point that it doesn't make sense to not try and reduce your risk of something bad happening just because there is no way you can reduce the risk to absolutely zero.

You can reduce your risk of being murdered in a dark park to zero by never entering dark parks.

There’s very little society can do for accidents happening, however tragic they may be. There is something that can be done about deliberate attacks - but women are not the ones who can do that something.

You must be joking! There is a lot society can reduce the risk of road accidents. You wouldn't say there is no pointing looking before crossing the road because society hasn't prevented dangerous driving would you?

You must be joking! There is a lot society can reduce the risk of road accidents. You wouldn't say there is no pointing looking before crossing the road because society hasn't prevented dangerous driving would you?

Since you’ve just said you’re not comparing road accidents to rape, please explain this question to me.

Unless you’re saying that preventing yourself being hit by a drunk driver (probably not deliberately, unlikely to be a male driver and female victim) is the same as walking through a park and being raped, I don’t understand this question.

How do you feel about men, all men, being responsible for preventing rape?

Wow all the empathy there dungeons

The obvious point is that you can avoid dark parks til the cows come home but you can’t avoid men and as the ones that are not prepared to take no for an answer don’t wear a neon sign there is little you can do to avoid them other than never spend time with a man ever.

It lulls you into a sense of false security that by avoiding the dark and being on your own you can ensure that the vast majority of sexual violence will pass you by. Also we never talk about how one can avoid being sexually assaulted by a partner, friend, colleague or aquaintance as we’re all too busy telling stupid women not to walk down dark alleys, pissed, at two in the morning.

Sorry, that should say ‘overwhelmingly male driver...’ and ‘not waking..’

Eurydice was murdered. There have always, always been horrific cases of lone women being murdered while minding their business in public places. Commonly after dark, in hidden or remote spaces.

Hitchhiking, working in the sex trade, all the crap thriller clichés exist for a reason. Those things have a higher risk attached to them. Go ahead and do them if you want, tell your kids to do them if that's what you think is appropriate. But the majority of humans will sense and assess risk individually and act accordingly.

Wow all the empathy there dungeons

WTF are you talking about. You are being utterly ridiculous.

It lulls you into a sense of false security that by avoiding the dark and being on your own you can ensure that the vast majority of sexual violence will pass you by.

Considering that I have REPEATEDLY said that you can't reduce the risk to zero I don't know why you are suggesting that I have a false sense of security. I am well aware that I could be attacked even if I don't avoid the dark but as I want to have a life I am prepared to take some risks. I don't know about you but avoiding dark parks doesn't impact the quality of my life so I don't take that risk particularly as it will be a lot higher than walking down a busy street in the daytime.

Also we never talk about how one can avoid being sexually assaulted by a partner, friend, colleague or aquaintance as we’re all too busy telling stupid women not to walk down dark alleys, pissed, at two in the morning.*

Since you’ve just said you’re not comparing road accidents to rape, please explain this question to me.

I am not comparing rape to road accidents. I saying that not doing anything to avoid something bad happening because you can't totally negate the risk is not rational.

But I’m not saying do nothing. I’m saying ‘men, sort this out’.

The lack of empathy you showed me dungeons when I talk about my actual experience of sexual violence.

It’s interesting how women who have experienced sexual violence are ignored in the debate as to how women can keep themselves safe from sexual violence. Or if not ignored, it’s simply assumed they run from dark park to dodgy alleyway, tits out and high on Aperol Spritz. Which sensible women who follow all the precautions never, ever do and therefore it won’t happen to them. Are there other areas of life where if someone has experience of something they are assumed to have a less knowledgeable position than someone who has never experienced it?

How about the men set about fundamentally changing the structures of society, and assuming that'll take a few generations, we exercise risk management until the threat has been extinguished?

I'm very sorry for your experience, golden. But no murder victims will be sharing their experiences with us. The reason we're having this conversation is because a young woman was murdered by a stranger.

Ahh Morris so you do think it’s the men who can fix this! We’re on the same page then - except I think the first response after an attack like this should be ‘we have failed you. Men, take more responsibility’ not ‘woman, you have failed yourself. Other women take note’.

I was speaking hypothetically. I doubt men can fix this on their own.

I also don't think that asking the public to take care is the same as telling people that they've failed, but I know we will never agree on this. I know you mean it in a good way, it's just not how I'll ever see the world.

The lack of empathy you showed me dungeons when I talk about my actual experience of sexual violence.

I'm sorry that you experienced sexual violence even though you didn't walk through any dark parks. However, that doesn't mean that walking through dark parks is not very risky.

Morris 👍

The Police telling women to be situationally aware, is NOT victim blaming. It's bloody common sense. And, if there was a rapist on the loose in your town, and you had a daughter, I bet you would be ferrying her about for a while, rather than allowing her to walk home in the dark. Unless you would put her in possible danger, just to make a stupid point.

You can't stop men raping and murdering, just by "educating more", because any normal & sane man knows that raping and murdering is a heinous crime, and they have no desire to do it. The men who are raping and murdering are clearly wired up wrong, and there's bugger all you can do, to change that.

So, the next best thing, is to not take any unnecessary risks. Sure, any woman should be able to stroll through an empty park at midnight, in just her birthday suit, and fully expect not to be raped, however, that would be a very risky thing to do.

In my town just now, we have a flasher. He's been seen in the woods and he hasn't been caught. The other day, he revealed his todger to a 51 year old woman, walking her dog. I usually walk through the woods with my dogs. Lately, I've chosen to stick to the path. Because, whilst I should be able to walk through the woods, doing so when there is clearly a nutter prowling around, would make me an idiot.

You can't stop men raping and murdering, just by "educating more", because any normal & sane man knows that raping and murdering is a heinous crime, and they have no desire to do it. The men who are raping and murdering are clearly wired up wrong, and there's bugger all you can do, to change that.

Have you read this thread?

normal & sane man knows that raping and murdering is a heinous crime,

I agree with you on the murder point. However,a lot of normal and sane men do not see it as rape if she's drunk,if she's his wife,if she changes her mind during,if she requests a condom and he slips it off, if she looks older, if she went home with him etc.
Most men think rape is a heinous crime,change the wording and a lot of them are suddenly willing or already have done some of those things. They would never rape though.

There’s a certain sort of arrogance to believing the world should be risk free and that one should not have to measure up risk when choosing how to engage with the world.

Yes how arrogant of women to expect men not to rape them. That's a new one.

I expect men not to rape me but I am aware that some men rape women and I factor the risk of rape into my decision making.

I would say this story is in the worldwide news because it is so rare and because it unfortunately is the epitome of a stranger rape and murder - straight out of everyone’s worst nightmares.

Most rapes and sexually motivated murders do not make worldwide news. Women are raped and murdered every day in every corner of the world. The only similarity will be that they were women and their rapists and murderers were men (in the vast vast majority of cases).

I expect men not to rape me but I am aware that some men rape women and I factor the risk of rape into my decision making

I assume you are living on a female only island? You aren’t married to a man? You don’t have any male relatives? No male friends? No female friends with male friends they might introduce you to? And you don’t take cabs or buses or trains...

Seriously. How the actual fuck do you “factor rape into your decision making” in a meaningful way?