Horrible dilemma- please help.

[beclev24]

I have had many years of fertility treatment and through a combination of IVF and frozen embryos now have three wonderful DS's including a 6 month old baby. I am incredibly grateful and lucky to have them but Life with a baby and two rambunctious older boys is VERY VERY full on and exhausting. i often feel totally overwhelmed.

it's awful to say, but I have always craved a girl. This obviously doesn't mean that I love my boys any less- just that I have always wished I could raise a daughter and felt very disappointed and sad that I haven't had that chance. I've really tried to work out why I feel this way. I am not a gender essentialist. I don't believe htat there are hard wired differences between boys and girls and I have brought my sons up to believe that boys and girls can and should pursue any interests they enjoy. But still....I think bringing up a girl is a different experience from boys- mainly navigating a different set of social expectations and ones which I feel personally way more comfortable with. I adore my boys but a lot of their interests bore me senseless. I know this may also be true with a girl but I think that it would be easier to share old toys/ games/ interests with a girl growing up without constantly feeling as though you are making a point or fighting the tide of the whole of society etc etc. I would dearly love to share my experience of being a girl with my own daughter. But I just assumed that we woudl have no more children and so was coping wtih the fact that this would never happen.

Anyway after a lifetime of infertility, at age 45 while breastfeeding and using contraception I am unexpectedly 10 wks pregnant, wiht a girl (found out thro harmony test) a! I have no idea what to do. on the one hand, having another child may push us over the edge (DH feels this even more strongly than me)- we are exhausted, are boys are full on and very demanding, my career would never recover, my last pregnancy was risky, this one likely will be too, Im old etc etc. everything points away from having another child but yet this would be my longed for daughter, WWYD?? Ay advice/ perspectives welcome

OK then I am back because I want to answer the OP who is addressing me.

@beclev24

I am not 'being horrible,' (and neither is anyone else, people are just posting their views.)

And I just noticed that you were not answering me, even though I asked the question several times.

It seems the only reason you want this baby is because it's a girl. No matter how many different ways you word it, it is what it is.

Is this you on this thread from 2015?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2319473--to-want-a-daughter?pg=7

The posting style is very similar, and so is the subject matter. This was posted 3 years ago, and the poster of that thread had 2 boys then. You say you have 3, but one is only 6 months old, so you would have had 2 when this thread was posted.

If it is you (and I suspect it is,) then I really think you need serious help and counselling. As some posters have said, you seem to have an idealistic view of what a daughter will be. She may not measure up to that 'perfect girly daughter' you want her to be. What then?!

I apologise if I have offended you. I did grill you a bit, but I do find only wanting to keep a baby if it's the gender you want, pretty disturbing to be honest.

I genuinely do wish you well, and as I said, I apologise if I have offended you, but I can't help the way I feel - and think - about what you have posted......

And now I AM out.

Have to agree with SeriousSimon. I've had my eyes opened. Had no idea this would be be considered outside societies such as China (which I had assumed was found repugnant ). All for the sake of some genitalia.

Beclev Deep breaths.

Someone on the first page, suggested that you flip a coin. They didn't mean it literally. Try to imagine flipping a coin, you are watching it fly up in slow motion, and tumble down again. If it lands on Heads, you have your baby, if it lands on Tails, you terminate....what side are you willing it to land on? Everything else is gravy.

You CAN make this work, if you really want your daughter. It just requires some clever thinking, about your daily life and routines . For eg. can you pay for some nursery sessions, to give you a few hours of peace during the week?

Fwiw, I don't think you'd ever get over it, if you abort her.

I have a boy and a girl. They are 21 & 19 now, and both at Uni. I am close to them both, love them both the same, but yes, my relationship with my daughter is different to that with my son.

My son is independent and I might not hear from him for days or weeks. He is very typically the down to earth male.

My daughter however, is in touch most days, just for chit chat. We enjoy shopping together and the same trash tv. We talk about all sorts and gossip etc and dissect life/relationships/boys. We have the type of chat that boys just aren't interested in. She is coming to see me today actually for a few days, and I'm so looking forward to it.

Anyway, I digress. What side do you wish the coin to land on?

*which I had assumed we all found repugnant

I think you and your husband should sit and work it out. Make a list of positives and negatives to the family. Considering everything. How old is your older one? if he is big enough then taking up another responsibility won't hurt that much..

Sorry, I should perhaps have added a caveat, that I am only 3 years older than you Op, so I can't speak for having a baby at 45, however, one would argue, that you are probably more financially secure and of a calmer disposition at your age, and better able to cope with 4 babies than someone younger. I think the devil will be in the detail, organising your lives down to the last detail, and using nursery and grandparents to maximum effect. During Uni holidays, there will be dozens of girls in your area, who would provide home help duties for a very reasonable hourly rate. If you are set up well financially, thrown money at the situation!

Had no idea this would be be considered outside societies such as China (which I had assumed was found repugnant hmm). All for the sake of some genitalia

Oh give over. If you can't understand the dilemma from all the detail in the Op, then quite frankly, you are hard of thinking.

Lindalee, think about this (and by your standards you owe me an answer).

What makes you think ANYONE is obliged to do what you want, and why is your immediate response to being challenged a volley of passive aggressive remarks and flouncing, only to come back and have another demanding "Look at me, I'm LindaLEE!" tantrum because the op still hasn't obeyed your orders?

Do you follow your parter around the house baying for answers? DO you batter him/her with passive aggressive faux concern for his/her mental state or anger levels? DO you make horrible remarks to him/her and then pass it off with "'winkyface' just kidding babes "

Why are you treating the OP in such an abusive way? WHy do you think you have the right to have your whims attended to LindaLee?

Huskylover my brother and I both loved my late Mum, and were loved by her equally. Yet he was the one who was in touch for a chat most days and lived near her, I was the independent one who didn’t call for weeks on end (though to be fair I was always able to have a proper chat about clothes with my Mum whereas my brother wouldn’t have known where to start). I’m not sure that it’s possible to generalise about relationships with parents by gender. Perhaps place in family is a more reliable indicator? Was your some the elder of the two (like me)?

I don't really understand what all the posters saying they have better relationships with their daughters than their sons think they're proving? Perhaps that's the outcome of your gendered expectations of your children. Maybe you were just a bit of a shit mum to your boys. Either way, it doesn't prove anything about anyone else.

Huskylover I think most people would be shocked by someone admitting they would abort a baby simply because it wasn't the preferred gender.

Congratulations! I only have a DD - yes, daughters are WONDERFUL!! Her brothers are going to love her. Go for it...and buy as much pink as you like :-)

Are you one of those parents that would never point their son in pink because it's 'girly'?

I have 3 older boys and now, at 40 have a surprise baby girl.

It was a horrid pregnancy, nasty emcs delivery, I’m knackered and skint.

But it’s bloody brilliant.

Congratulations xxxx

I honestly cannot believe some of the responses to this thread. The post about how the OP should just have the baby and then put it up for adoption if she can't cope, the post about how the "lovely lady" may be a calming influence on her brothers, the post about how it's "kind of sad" that the OP had boys through IVF instead of just one "miracle daughter". This scenario is really quite dark. I've seen threads on here previously about female foetuses being aborted for cultural reasons and the general consensus tends to be that it's appalling. I don't understand why the reaction on this thread is so positive by comparison.

Huskylover - I read it and I understand. I still think it's awful.

My views aren't identical to yours - that doesn't make me thick .

What I find most repugnant are the 'you go Hun, you have your daughter' and 'you cherish your lovely girl' type responses - completely focused on sex.

The op has made several comments around the fact she might struggle/4 is a stretch/dh isn't thrilled.

On ANY other thread about an op deciding whether to go ahead with a pregnancy, I'm usually a little disheartened by just how quickly so many suggest termination, encourage it even. It's just cells, only a foetus, not alive yet, think of your existing children.

Oh no. Not in this case. Not if you know it's a girl. You go hunny and you have your pretty little baby. Little lady will complete you. Lucky you after only having three boys so far.

It's fucking foul. Literally making me feel queasy.

I agree with a pp - for all you Huns that have such a better relationship with your dd's, I think it's probably because you were a shit mother to your sons.

I am baffled by how many people feel the need to jump on others for being pleased with having a girly girl or any such thing. Just wtf. Not everyone has to be gender neutral, not every girl has to be a tomboy.

for all you Huns that have such a better relationship with your dd's, I think it's probably because you were a shit mother to your sons.

Wow! what an awful thing to say. lots of people have better or worse relationships with different adult children for all kinds of reasons- personality/ temperament/ shared interests or lack of/ distance etc, and gender may be one factor in that. Having a better relationship with one kid doesn't necessarily mean you were a 'shit mother' to the others.

I don't think it's possible for people to really help you in any meaningful way over the internet. It's a huge decision that is so individually nuanced to your own family and your own situation and feelings that it can only be made as a family (or at least with the support of people who know you well).

But, fwiw, I think it sounds like you would really regret having an abortion and that the strain you'd put yourself through mentally and emotionally by doing so would match the strain you'd put yourself through physically and emotionally by going ahead with the pregnancy.

I'm not sure I agree with all the horror about the fact that you would have an abortion if it was a boy. It's not great but you've acknowledged that and we're all human - we all have unethical and unpleasant feelings sometimes. We should be able to write them here; surely that's one huge purpose of an anonymous forum.

I'm personally very anti abortion - to the point that my second daughter was conceived when I was raped. Everyone who knew assumed I would/encouraged me to have an abortion. But it wasn't an option for me because I believe that life starts at conception and therefore to me it was wrong. But I'm also pro choice. And, however much it might upset me to think it, that means I think that all women should be able to decide on abortion for themselves and for any reason. I thought the majority on mn were far, far more pro choice than I am so I'm surprised to read so many comments saying that wanting an abortion for this reason is not okay.

@Serioussimon
Harsh much?
If you want something enough, then you make it work. OP would make it work. Take your anger out on the women having careless sex and having terminations willy nilly 'but decided to keep this one'
OP has had a lifetime of infertility. That allows her to feel immensely happy or sad at having conceived naturally. The 'oh fuck' feeling is valid, she can want to terminate as she doesn't need more of the same-it makes her life harder. But this isn't the same, it's a daughter not another son. So she's also allowed to feel happy at that, because she's never had the chance to conceive naturally let alone get a girl.
I'd probably keep the baby regardless but I understand her dilemma and think she should keep it-even if her marriage were to break down, she'd regret a termination forever having lost the daughter she'd always wanted. Even if she turns out a tomboy or lesbian or whatever. It is different to having a boy.

I'm personally very anti abortion - to the point that my second daughter was conceived when I was raped. Everyone who knew assumed I would/encouraged me to have an abortion. But it wasn't an option for me because I believe that life starts at conception and therefore to me it was wrong. But I'm also pro choice. And, however much it might upset me to think it, that means I think that all women should be able to decide on abortion for themselves and for any reason. I thought the majority on mn were far, far more pro choice than I am so I'm surprised to read so many comments saying that wanting an abortion for this reason is not okay.

Wow- I'm full of admiration for you. WHat an amazingly complex and difficult situation and what a nuanced and generous understanding of ethics and choice.

@manicinsomniac
I love your post! You must be a very strong individual .. really admire your thinking and choices

Op I think you want this baby and I think life will be crazy for a few years but you'll cope. However I don't like this idea of craving a daughter. You are making assumptions that your dd will conform to some gender stereotype and that's just not fair.
After having two boys and wanting no more, I was upset to find myself accidentally pregnant. I didn't really fancy having three boys but I refused to crave a little girl because most important to me was a healthy baby. I did have a little girl and it's been amazing not because of her gender but because of her individual personality. She's been a happy little accident but because she's thoughtful, smart and generous not because I've got someone to go shopping with.

@milada

I am touched by your searing honesty

misseliza I agree, and don't expect a daughter to be someone to go shopping with or have any particular interests etc. BUt yet somehow it still matters to me. I think it matters to you a bit too though (correct me if I'm wrong here) as you said "i didn't fancy three boys..." if it really was just about the individuals- why would this matter to you?