Abortion ...genuinely interested if you are Pro life.....

[Foxy333]

I was undecided, not sure. Then I read this article with example ( pro-choice article) of how to tell if society really does/ or should/ value the life of an embryo the same as an adult or child.

It said imagine you are in a burning building and gave to get out . Next to you is a 2 year old toddler and a small fridge in which 5 embryos or test tube babies post-conception are stored. Building could be an IVF clinic. You can climb out the window of the building but only time to save either the toddler or save the small fridge with embryos in.

Which do you save and which more important?? Those embryos would be massively wanted by some couple going through ivf, could be their last chance at parenthood. Which is more important for you to save.

It made me think. I think the unborn baby does have some rights but a born living child.....Not sure you can say they are equal. How many people would save the fridge with more potential living people in it and leave the 2 year old. I know its hyperthetical but am genuinely interested in others views.

@SumAndSubstance

*Force a woman to give birth because it will save a life. Force a woman to donate a kidney because it will save a life.*

Whats the difference to 'pro-lifers'?

Fairly obviously, I would have thought, 'pro-lifers' don't want to force a woman to give birth, they want to prevent anyone from killing a foetus, which they believe to already be alive. They are not trying to save the foetus' life, they are trying to prevent it being killed. In the latter example, nobody is under threat of being killed, just of dying. These are not the same thing.
Whether you agree with 'pro-lifers' or not, I find it very odd how many people don't seem to grasp the basic concept that they believe that a foetus is alive already and has a right not to be killed.

This is exactly how I feel. I'm pro-life, but I don't think abortions should be illegal. I understand why a woman would want one and think safe abortions should be accessible for all because back street ones cause more issues than they solve.

I also think the time limit should be reduced, obviously, Texas is mad with only 6 weeks, but I think if people wait for 12 weeks because of the chance of miscarraige, the abortion limit should be quite close to that. Maybe 14-16 weeks.

I think that's an absolute no brainer, even for an advocate for pro life. It doesn't take a seconds thought, does it?

I dont think your question is really sorting people into pro choice or 'pro life' as most people would save the child in those hypothetical circumstances.
I am pro choice and believe women should have freedom to decide what to do with their own bodies and pregnancies.
I would even go so far as to say that women should have the right to an abortion after 24 weeks but this is obviously another hypothetical because the law will not change in that direction.
I must admit I feel a bit iffy about sex selective abortion but issues around that could be addressed/reduced with the right education and support for women.
When push comes to shove, as a feminist I dont believe that any woman should ever be forced to carry to term and give birth to a baby she does not want to carry, birth or care for.

I am pro choice. Woman should have a choice what happens to their bodies.

@sleep5

Personally, I don't think abortion is a good thing health wise and it's expensive for the health service.

The govt should be spending the money on sex education and promoting contraception and making it more freely available - vending machines, schools, etc.

Introduce fees for abortion based on income with exceptions for rape and so on.

An unwanted baby being born is more expensive

Christ it’s a zombie thread! I watch..

For myself, I don't think I could terminate a pregnancy due to my personal experiences and beliefs. But that's me. I'm not every woman on the planet, so I don't have the right to impose my own preferences on other people.

I think safe, legal access to contraception and termination is needed. I also think there should be more support and counselling available for women who are pregnant and unsure about what they want to do or who would want to continue with a pregnancy but are worried about how they'd cope.

Respecting and valuing life needs to include the lives of pregnant women and their right to choose. I don't need to agree with a choice to respect it and to defend someone's right to make it.

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It is for you and whoever came up with the statistic, any actual source?
I know I would regret it, and I know my DD would regret it. I happen to know her, and she is maternal.
If you or 95% of other womendo not have the same feeling, my respects for it, but I am still 100% sure of what I would choose, and I would keep the baby.

It’s really not the same thing as being anti-abortion.

I doubt anyone would disagree with abortion where the mother’s life is genuinely in danger such that it is a ‘she or the foetus lives’ situation but when you’re more on the “couldn’t be bothered to use a condom” or “the pregnancy is inconvenient because of a planned holiday” spectrum, a lot of people would disapprove of the woman deciding to abort.

And who cares if it’s a zombie thread, what difference does that make to the question?

My last post is in reply to Cloud, page 5

I didn’t regret mine, and I also work in abortion services, so I absolutely dispute the notions that regret is inevitable, and women don’t actually know what they’re doing, because if they did they’d be pro life. I’d say the psychological burden is far higher in bringing an unwanted child into the world, both for the woman and the child.

I think the original question is relevant, considering pro lifers do like to state that an embryo or fetus is indeed a child, equal to a toddler in every way. If that is true, then it would make sense for them to save the freezer, considering the number of ‘children’ it contains.

@sleep5

Personally, I don't think abortion is a good thing health wise and it's expensive for the health service.

The govt should be spending the money on sex education and promoting contraception and making it more freely available - vending machines, schools, etc.

Introduce fees for abortion based on income with exceptions for rape and so on.

Abortion was the best thing for my health and I genuinely believe it’s the reason I’m alive. I had an abortion at the age of 16 after a sickness bug meant my pill failed. Something about the father never seemed right to me and the relationship was toxic and unstable although we stayed together after. A couple of years down the line he became incredibly abusive. I’m 6 years out of that relationship and it ended after multiple times of him threatening to kill me, often holding a knife to my neck or strangling me. I barely made it out alive and truly believe that if I had been tied to him because of a baby, or if the abuse started sooner because he had a baby to use as leverage, I would either be dead or a shell of myself. I also know that he would have ruined that child’s life with what they would have seen. At 16 I could never have afforded an abortion if I had to pay for it. Schools focus heavily on sexual health and safety now from a very young age but accidents happen. Why should people who can afford private medical care have the opportunity to continue their lives childfree if an accident does happen, but a younger or poorer cannot? When those are the people who most would say shouldn’t be having children in the first place. Money should not dictate whether women are allowed to make decisions about their own lives, bodies and personal safety.

But abortion is not usually the embryo’s death weighed up against the mother’s death. It’s the embryo’s death weighed up against the mother’s mental health/happiness.

A more accurate analogy would be, would you save the fridge and cause a woman to suffer trauma and risk minor physical injury, or vice versa.

The few cells in the ivf tubes are not all going to attach or prove viable. I guess it would be more like taking the morning after pill, which I know some pro-lifers are against but not all.

I am ‘pro life’, I believe an unborn baby is a living person and that it is ethically wrong to end that life for any reason in the same way it would be with a person outside of the womb. I know that people find themselves in very difficult and desperate situations and understand the arguments about making abortion illegal would push them underground and make them unsafe. But we could make the same arguments about slavery, slavery is illegal now and so modern day slavery continues unseen and hidden with many people in horrendous situations. We could legalise slavery again in order to be able to properly regulate it, ensure slaves were treated well etc. But we don’t, because we recognise that ethically there is something fundamentally wrong with owning another human being. In the same way I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with the destruction of an unborn baby being something that is not only legal but is funded by the state

Did you actually just compare terminating a collection of cells not yet viable as a baby, with slavery?!?!?

@Sunshine1235

I am ‘pro life’, I believe an unborn baby is a living person and that it is ethically wrong to end that life for any reason in the same way it would be with a person outside of the womb. I know that people find themselves in very difficult and desperate situations and understand the arguments about making abortion illegal would push them underground and make them unsafe. But we could make the same arguments about slavery, slavery is illegal now and so modern day slavery continues unseen and hidden with many people in horrendous situations. We could legalise slavery again in order to be able to properly regulate it, ensure slaves were treated well etc. But we don’t, because we recognise that ethically there is something fundamentally wrong with owning another human being. In the same way I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with the destruction of an unborn baby being something that is not only legal but is funded by the state

You aren't pro-life.

You are pro-unsafe abortions that kill over 100,000 women a year.

Making abortion illegal doesn't make it go away. It just makes it more dangerous.

@Yokatsu

Save the child....

But I do believe that the maximum time should be bought down for all but abortion on the some acute medical grounds.

I had a 3D scan done of both my babies at about 24 weeks. There was no doubt that was a baby in there, but I was still within the legal abortion limits. Seemed very wrong to me

Yes and I’m sure you had a bump?

@SusieBob women where?

I am pro choice but I really wish they would lower the limit on when you can choose to have one unless on medical grounds. Overall it would sit with me much better if the limit was 10-12 weeks.

I don't think that's a very good comparison as nobody is asking anyone to choose a foetus OVER a living baby or child.

I too have mixed feeling on abortion. As you did ask, my thoughts are that they should only be available up to a certain number of weeks - I start to see the foetus as a baby after around 12 weeks, so that would be the point I start to struggle with the concept.

I feel that allowing abortions up until the point where the baby could survive if born at this age is absolutely horrifying, barbaric, brutal, disgusting... There aren't enough words to describe how awful I think this is.

(I say 12 weeks but ideally would prefer 8-10 weeks)

@MadameGazellee

(I say 12 weeks but ideally would prefer 8-10 weeks)

Great.

Don't have an abortion after 8-10 weeks.

You don't get to make that decision for other people though.