Abortion ...genuinely interested if you are Pro life.....

[Foxy333]

I was undecided, not sure. Then I read this article with example ( pro-choice article) of how to tell if society really does/ or should/ value the life of an embryo the same as an adult or child.

It said imagine you are in a burning building and gave to get out . Next to you is a 2 year old toddler and a small fridge in which 5 embryos or test tube babies post-conception are stored. Building could be an IVF clinic. You can climb out the window of the building but only time to save either the toddler or save the small fridge with embryos in.

Which do you save and which more important?? Those embryos would be massively wanted by some couple going through ivf, could be their last chance at parenthood. Which is more important for you to save.

It made me think. I think the unborn baby does have some rights but a born living child.....Not sure you can say they are equal. How many people would save the fridge with more potential living people in it and leave the 2 year old. I know its hyperthetical but am genuinely interested in others views.

I was always pro choice in an ‘of course I believe in a women’s right to have control over her body’. Since have had a child I am vehemently pro-choice. I love my daughter and she was planned and is very much loved but it has been difficult, especially my straightward pregnancy and difficult birth with complications that nearly killed me. I can’t imagine forcing a women to go through that.

I have noticed lots threads recently in active if women considering termination of pregnancy. I am probably seeing more as I am miscarrying so anything pregnancy related stands out to me. I strongly believe that everyone of those women should be supported to make the right decision for them.

How heavy is the fridge? Could I sell it on eBay afterwards?

I am pro-life in that I wouldn't have an abortion personally but also believe that women have a right to choose what happens to their own bodies.

Really interesting posts & glad I started thread. I have got children and being pregnant and giving birth had made me more pro choice as it's such a big deal to go through- life changing ... body changing.

it stops the ' don't abort " just " (!) give the baby up for abortion argument for me.

I think it's partly evolutionary. Babies are totally helpless when born so they have to be appealing to adults protective instincts to survive. So in a fight or flight crisis of this nature logic doesn't come into it, we would act by instinct and that instinct would be to protect the child we can see.

“I hate the way people generalise the opinions of pro-life supporters. Some of the attitudes on here are revolting.”

In what way ILikeMyChickenFried? Are you an anti-choicer? Do you understand how desperate some women feel when faced with an unplanned pregnancy? Don’t you think every child should be a wanted child?

“Personally, I don't think abortion is a good thing health wise and it's expensive for the health service.”

What a silly statement sleep5 . Having a baby is far, far more costly to the NHS than an abortion.

Seriously @sleep5 ?
You do realise that an abortion is far less costly for government compared to antenatal care/birthing costs and the million things they pay for after birth?? Funded hours, school, child benefit etc.

And you want women to pay for these unless they've been raped? Does being raped come with some kind of free pass? How would that work? How would a woman, who's already been through such trauma, have to do in order to get her "free" abortion

I think that once everyone has access to abortions, as they should do, we need to stop having this debate.

I have been in the position of being advised to have an abortion and I chose not to so I know how I stand on the subject WRT myself and my own body. However, that is just about me. I think whether you are for or against, it is no ones decision and business but yours. We are all different and people choose to end their pregnancy or keep it for very different reasons.

Once NI has the same rights as the rest of us then we can drop this stick that we beat each other with.

Pregnancy and birth are also far more dangerous than a termination.

I think even the most ardent Pro-Gestation person would save the toddler.

Personally, I don't think abortion is a good thing health wise and it's expensive for the health service.

Carrying a pregnancy to term and then delivering that baby is a heck of a lot harder on a woman's overall health and way more expensive for the health service. Looking at it purely from a cost point of view, the majority of terminations in the parts of the UK where it is legal are carried out prior to 12wks (92% of all terminations) so in 92% of cases you're looking at the cost of a maximum of 12wks of care versus 40wks of care plus the cost of delivery and potentially long term postnatal care.

Charging for terminations unfairly penalises women, there will be a lot of men who won't contribute financially therefore in many cases the entire cost will be borne by the woman having the procedure. Pregnancy is not a punishment for having sex and nor should there be a financial penalty for not wanting to continue that pregnancy.

I agree with you on education and contraception though, both of which should be widely and freely available alongside unhindered access to termination services should the need arise.

Every child a wanted child.

Fees for abortion? Where are we, sleep, America?

It should be free. Forcing people to give birth because they can't afford it (because we all know sliding scales are bullshit - it's based on income, not how much money you actually have spare!) is never going to work.

I had an abortion at 7 weeks. It was very much like a heavy period and no ‘baby’ type of anything. Just clotted blood (sorry for the tmi) so I’m surprised that at 12 weeks it’s a regnisable baby (not for a moment suggesting I don’t believe you, just very surprised)
I am in favour of bringing the age limit down though, unless mothers life is at risk. I think there’s discussion needed over what type of abortion - I had an early medical abortion which essentially is a forced miscarriage. I think the health (both mentally and physically) complications are much worse for a surgical abortion.
I don’t see why we have to come down so completely on either ‘for’ or ‘against’. That black and white viewpoint seems to prevent us talking about things like dates, circumstances, type, mental health etc etc etc

I think even the most ardent Pro-Gestation person would save the toddler.

Quite. The analogy doesn't prove or disprove anything about the logic of a 'pro-choice' opinion.

And then the women who fall short of the sliding scale yet can't afford a child/another child are then placed into hardship having to give birth to a child they cannot afford to provide for or will struggle to provide for. That's when the backstreet abortionists start seeing an upturn in their businesses, along with the funeral directors who very often deal with the aftermath.

I think the analogy bears no relation to the abortion debate. No one is faced with choosing between a toddler and an unborn baby are they? In fact, that people would save a toddler over an adult actually adds weight to the pro-life argument that someone should be speaking up for the defenceless unborn baby who cannot defend themselves.

When I was at school in the 1970s the senior mistress would do all the sex ed and other similar talks with us. She never advised against under aged sex or drugs, but she said under no circumstance should anyone seek a back street abortion. This has stayed with me ever since.

We should never, ever go back to those days of back street abortions.

It's a silly analogy.

Most people would save a 2yo....

I'd save a 2year old over an elderly person..they're easier to pick up, for a start - doesn't mean I don't value the elderly.

I’d love to know what the pro-Birthers think about IVF, if they agree with it.

But I have no problem with people who disagree with terminating a pregnancy, by all means don’t do it.

It’s those who agree with it under certain circumstances I struggle with. It places a judgment on women, and if they accept you are ‘innocent’ eg rape or health issue you are absolved. Otherwise, you can be punished for your immoral ways and should be denied an abortion.

There's a massive difference between frozen embryos in an ivf cinic and forced abortions.

If I'd frozen a few eggs 20 years ago, I'll be honest - I won't have saved them from a burning building. I was forced into an abortion at 16 weeks, his name is Nathaniel as I was told his sex from a scan after he was gone.

Force a woman to give birth because it will save a life.
Force a woman to donate a kidney because it will save a life.

Whats the difference to 'pro-lifers'?

I would save the child who already exists.

5/ 500/ 5 million POTENTIAL lives aren't more important than one life who is already born.

sleep5 introducing fees for abortion will just mean women on low incomes suffer. Rich women will still be able to pay for them.

The basic fact is if you made abortion illegal you wouldn’t stop it. You would only stop safe, sterile terminations. If a woman is desperate she will find a way to do it - we know this from history, we know this from every country where abortion is criminalised even now. Women will either travel to find one, or worse - she will order pills online, she will throw herself down the stairs, she might even use a coat hanger. Abortions will always happen one way or another, it comes down to whether or not you believe women should die for them.

That isn't a particularly helpful scenario, imo. What if there's a 2yo and a 90yo and you could only save one? Do they both have the same right to life? I'd argue yes, and yet if that were a real situation, I'd have to choose. What if there's a one week old baby and her mother? Which do you choose? They both have the same rights, surely?

So then what if it's that same baby a few months previously? Why should she no longer have the right to life? What if she were fully viable? What if, as there are some horrific stories of, she were aborted but survived the abortion? Should she be killed then or have the right to live?

My point is simply that these are complicated questions and the scenario in the OP doesn't actually help answer any of them.

The 2 year old would suffer if you left him to burn, but the embryos wouldn't.
(I don't mean that as any kind of analogy btw, it was just my first thought when I read the question).