To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

@GhostofFrankGrimes JLR are shifting jobs due to the horrendous impact of the whole Diesel engine measures

I am confident that most companies will have a foot in both the UK and the EU. As is the case with most larger businesses anyway. We have opened a small operation in AMS.

The financial jobs are not moving overseas. You will have to wait and see what happens in finance before you begin the sweeping statements. There are plenty of plans the City of London are making to ensure that London remains the financial capital of the world.

Doomsday won't happen. Sorry to disappoint.

It was the largest ever turn out to vote in history

Incorrect. 1992 election turnout was 77%. 1997 wasn’t far behind - 71.4%

Also the 1.2 million as a % isn’t very many. That’s the whole point. That’s a very small tipping point.

We will end up with “EU lite” - so we will formally “leave the U.K.” to satisfy the Brexiteers, but in theory, will end up with some kind of customs deal that mirrors the customs union, and a free trade agreement that is close to what we have now. On freedom of movement, we will still need eg European fruit pickers, but we had these back in the 1980s under the Concordia scheme. So we will probably go back to a similar scheme and open it more widely to FSU countries. And in theory, anyone from the EU who has a job to come to here is likely to get the paperwork rubber stamped pretty quickly. We will leave the CAP, although there is likely to be some kind of fudge on this for Northern Ireland. And many of the so-called transitional arrangements will be kept in place for years until they just become accepted.

Chances of all this not happening and a hard Brexit currently around 25%.

Many more wanted to leave but were too afraid to vote anything other than remain, as was the case with lots of my friends

Yes because your friends represent the remaining 28% who didn’t vote in the referendum.

28% is a huge figure compared to 4%.

4% in an election that was most likely interfered with.....

The government’s own impact assessment show that every single scenario leaves us worse off. Every single one.

The Brexiteers will just say that they’re biased etc etc..... why would they be biased - they want evidence to show that what they’re not ramming through is a good thing.

For this alone; I will never vote Tory. Let alone all the other crap that they pull.

You are very bad losers and continue to be very bad losers.

It says everything about who you are to be so entitled to believe you can simply overturn the result because it was not the result you wanted.

If remain had won the leave voters would have gracefully accepted the result and got on with their lives. I suggest you do the same.

Checking out.

And that is what I see in remainers everywhere this inability to think and behave rationally. Even now.

Oh, I'm behaving rationally. I'm taking steps to protect me and my family from the shitstorm that's coming. Our mortgage will be paid off by the end of the year, and I'm currently applying for jobs in a different sector, as my industry will likely fall apart after Brexit. We have savings and an exit plan if we really need one.

However, you're right that I'm not able to think rationally about the fuckwits who voted for this mess. I find that the only comfort in all of this is that the leave voters will suffer as much as the rest of us. Not proud of it, but honestly, that's how I feel.

The eu have consistently shown they can’t run a piss up in a brewery

Whereas the UK government are doing a fine job of course.

the middle class and consistently shown their contempt for the rest of the uk

Have a think about that statement. If, by 'middle class' you mean the wealthier in our society, who do you think is best placed to weather the inevitable shit storm? Jacob Rees Mogg and his old boys club chums, or Dave the northern car manufacturer worker? The gap between rich and poor is bigger than it's ever been and you think that Brexit is going to solve that?

who decided what gets ignored then after a democratic vote

Who are you to decide that democracy and the 'will of the people' is static and that you have one vote and then shut up? The people (around half the voting population) are still speaking!

As has been said, the referendum was advisory, not legally binding. 3m people were not allowed to vote, despite it affecting them the most in many cases. Lots more went to the polls misled by lies and false promises, or else were completely ignorant of what it would actually mean to them in practice (or they wilfully chose to ignore the experts in their fields).

If that is your idea of democracy then I would suggest it is you who belongs in a dictatorship.

Honestly, I get so pissed off with all this shit about us ignoring the will of the people and how there was a democratic vote when it's been the leavers that have tried to thwart, at every step, the continuing democratic process ever since June 2016 - moaning and whinging all the way, every time there's a Commons or a Lords vote or a challenge to the legalities of Brexit. That's democracy! That is the sovereignty you apparently voted for!

French2019

On the upside at least you can afford the therapy you clearly need to deal with the obscene and unnecessary levels of anger and hatred you are experiencing.

Get some help.

You are very bad losers and continue to be very bad losers

🤣 this isn’t a race

For goodness sake.

And your response is a classic leavers one because you have no decent argument as to why this is a good thing. None.

This isn’t like a general election. The EU was set up in the aftermath of huge world wars which did a huge amount of damage. This wasn’t some whim.

At least have a good reason for undoing it instead of trying to reform it. David Cameron made a half arse attempt, his negotiation tactic being to not go to the toilet to focus his mind

Ridiculous.

If remain had won the leave voters would have gracefully accepted the result and got on with their lives. I suggest you do the same.

Bollocks. From 17th May 2016:

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said : "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

We are bored now Believeitornot you are not listening, so that is why you are still completely oblivious to the very good and decent arguments made to leave.

I will leave you with your fingers in yours ears singing, and get on with life.

You need to get on with yours. The ref has been and gone, it has been decided. Brexit is happening. You need to grow up and get over it.

Exactly @Buteo

And because this is a democracy I’m not going to shut up and just accept it

Screw that

I don't know where all these Remoaners live, but come to my part of the country and there's nothing.

We haven't benefited from being in the EU for 40 years. Theres' no business, no industry - what we had has gone. Any NMW jobs going are taken by the Eastern Europeans. Either that or they are lying on the streets drunk and drugged up.

Its not as if the Germans or French have flooded in, or anyone with a trade or profession.

Where @summerinrome?

Please do point them out.

Nonsense about terrorism, about low wages etc etc yet ignoring the concerns about workers rights and austerity does not make a good argument

I’m a reasonable person, looking for a logical argument. I looked for one pre referendum because I didn’t know which way to vote.

I read all party manifestos before elections to check my assumptions

So, I’m all ears.

If remain had won the leave voters would have gracefully accepted the result and got on with their lives

I know its been said before...but what a load of bollocks

Do people really not know that the EU parliament is elected? So was Juncker elected. It's democratic.

And no, Leavers wouldn't have gone away with good grace. They didn't do it after we democratically voted to join the EU in the first place (shouldn't that decision be honoured forever by their logic and never challenged?) and wouldn't have if the 2016 referendum was a result for Remain. Well nor will we and why should we? You didn't win. We all lost. Now we need another referendum, the same as Leavers wanted. Fair's fair, right? Or perhaps you're frightened you can't fool people again.

*no, I'm not middle-class, unlike the Leave spokespeople we see everywhere.

Interesting that the major airlines are accepting bookings from end of March 2019 onwards with no caveat???

LifeBeginsAtGin I live in East Anglia - a region that relies on eastern Europeans in arable farming and is only now just waking up to the fact that when they leave there is no rush from the native English to pick and pack fruit and veg. As for trade professions, our NHS is propped up by thousands of people from EU countries (and beyond).

I think leaving the EU is a huge mistake. But if we were going to do it, there should have been a plan. What infuriates me is that our useless, dishonest, irresponsible, out of touch government only made a plan for the public to vote remain. They didn't call the vote because they were interested in public opinion or the future of the nation - they did so as they predicted a politically expedient remain vote to finally put the brexit wing of the Tory party to sleep, and so that they could continue to lay blame on the EU for their mistakes whilst pretending to address the wants of disenfranchised British people (well we gave you a referendum!) when they really couldn't give a shit.

There are some like Boris Johnson who I believed actually joined the leave campaign against his own understanding of what would be good for the country, purely to boost his own personal profile. He had a very grave "oh shit" face on the day of the result.

Since the referendum, the same unforgivable prioritisation of partisan politics continues - May now desperately pandering to brexit extremists because she is too afraid of cracking the Tory Party. People who would happily erode our rights, freedoms and welfare and ruin the future of the country to benefit their own personal interests. "Gutless and indecisive" indeed.

In my personal anecdotal experience, those of my colleagues and friends who voted Brexit - literally on the day of the result were pretty clear about their reasoning and it mainly involved misconceptions about immigration and a rebel / protest vote. Many of those who voted remain, also knew little about it. To be honest, all of us were in a way uninformed - because the government had no terms, no plan for leave, and provided no realistic information on what the costs and changes would actually be. And barefaced lies legitimised by mainstream politicians like BJ were everywhere. No plan for Northern Ireland ffs!

I did not like the horrible divide between the different voting groups after the referendum. Because its true that many people who voted to leave are from communities that have been disenfranchised for too long, whilst inequality and poverty steadily rise. It's true that many who voted to leave are decent, hard working people. And whilst some had reasons for leaving that were more realistic, in defence of those who did not - they were lied to. Sadly I think many of the things they thought they were voting for (distribution of funding/wealth into rural areas, increased funding and protection for the NHS, more jobs, reduced power to the "elite") are not only not going to happen, but the very opposite will happen.

Believeitornot This isn't about terrorism or low wages (but low wages is separately a problem but could be easily fixed)

We have a small country we have limited infrastructure and a free health service that we would like to keep. We can not possibly have an open door immigration policy. Even now schools, hospitals, housing, doctors, social services are all at breaking point. We could pour unlimited funds into this (that you would be paying for) and it still wouldn't be enough. We simply do not have the space or resources that France, Germany and others have to accommodate the millions and millions of extra people. It is not about being unwelcoming. It is about practicality. If you are as logical as you say you understand this.

We have a proud history as an island nation, we founded the justice system that much of the world uses today. And yet, we have to accept non stop legislation from EU courts much of which we simply do not agree with but have to implement anyway. The power from our parliaments now sits in Berlin. I want my vote to mean that I change things in this country I can't very well ger rid of Juncker or Merkel can I? No matter how much I would like to. True democracy needs to start from the roots up.

What infuriates me is that our useless, dishonest, irresponsible, out of touch government only made a plan for the public to vote remain

No plan needed as it was business as usual! No plan for Leave because they didn’t want to prejudice the outcome.

However years of Tory austerity is coming home to roost. They’ve been holding down civil servants pay - so decent people have left and now they’re desperate to recruit to cover the Brexit Shit storm. Good luck with that!

Exactly LifeBeginsAtGin! It's the same where I live, oh to live in a nice little bubble where all I have to worry about not being able to take my foreign holidays twice a year!

Interesting that the major airlines are accepting bookings from end of March 2019 onwards with no caveat???

Check the small print and your own travel insurance before booking though. Or could it be that they like me do not believe Brexit is going to happen ?

I cannot believe there are still people out there, our Government included, who still think Brexit is a good idea