To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

Oh really flib - now I'm apparently unemployed too, or paid for my words. How can that be when I'm too thick to even write properly, or read, or have any views that are my own.

I am not paid to post lies about Brexit

I get paid 40p a lie

A4710Rider

I am slightly insulted as I am only paid 30p a lie.

Do we think Topcat is paid more than us?

Given he could add links as well as say and spell hyperbole.

Some though I fear would sooner see the EU go completely under than reform the morass

What never fails to amaze me about our Remainer cousins is that they don't appreciate the knife edge the EU is on financially. They don't appreciate how many countries are really struggling, it could literally go tits up at any time. It would make the proposed Brexit apocalypse look like a teddy bears picnic.

"he did this for (alot) of money paid by the EU. To shut down the anti EU government. It backfired. "

Got evidence for this?

I think not.

"ALL of this on some small notion of an article that may or may not have been written years ago by Savona? "

Savona wrote it, it was published in May.

I voted remain but even i can see that a so called hard brexit is what people voted for and what we will get... there wasn't any other question on the ballot paper

The question was will we stay or will we remain in the EU?

As I said before there were plenty of events beforehand where various models for leaving were discussed from the EEA model to the WTO model.

Anyway, when Norway voted not to join the EU, it was just as close and instead of this ludicrous winner takes all mentality they decided to find a compromise and that's what we need now.

Remain voter or not, you are forgetting that Gibraltar voted overwhelmingly to stay and is a British Overseas Territory so it needs a different model.

As I have said a million times now so does NI.

The fact that the question was simple, doesn't mean that the answer is or that everyone voted with the same viewpoint because quite clearly they did not. There are people who felt we could do better with trade if we were outside the EU. There were people who felt immigration was too high. There were people who just don't like the EU structures. And I don't like Juncker and totally understand why Cameron was so keen not to have him as president but voted to remain because I value employment rights and ERASMUS - since the vote I've realised how much else I value too but those were the key things in my mind at the time I voted. Oh and someone I know voted to leave to annoy his brother. Maybe there's someone out there who voted to remain to annoy her sister. Who knows how many people voted the way they did for silly reasons?

As for Italy, I don't disagree with them refusing to take any more so-called refugees if they think the burden is falling on them too heavily.

I'm not in favour of a 2nd referendum because that would pave the way for a second indyref. But I do think MPs need to step up and make sure we have as soft a Brexit as possible.

I'm prepared to live in circumstances that undercut the resident Worker to make things better for my family back home so I only charge 25p.
Brexit Bingo.

"Do we think Topcat is paid more than us?"

You have been posting all day.

I worked this morning and have idled away most of my afternoon with your laughable efforts.

Are you Springing into action any time soon?

I am slightly insulted as I am only paid 30p a lie

Ha ha.

Savona wrote it, it was published in May

Then why didn't the President mention it when he gave his well documented reasons? Can you literally see into his brain?

A4710Rider It is not in the interests of any government to see the EU go completely tits up, but you would think the UK team would be capable of using this knowledge to their advantage?

Tiptoeing around the EU looks weak. Far better to play a stronger hand and be prepared to walk. Even the bog standard basics have not been there in the early stages, they have already given too much away. It has been disappointing. Perhaps the planning is such that they are biding their time....

Lets see.

It is people such as yourself OP who are going to make damn sure any Brexit (hard, soft or just a bit squidgy in the middle) is a complete disaster just so you can say "I told you so".

Running around panicking, screaming the sky is falling, the sky is falling in post after post.

For heavens sake, beggar off with your catastrophic premonitions and wait to see what actually happens instead.

itstimeforanamechange -

I agree entirely.

As I said a number of pages back the idea that 52/48 was a resounding victory for a type of leave not on the ballot is utterly disingenuous.

Actually I would have thought that a democratic vote so close would have seen a compromise on how we approach leaving. However this is utterly rejected by the hard leavers in government and in the media.

I like the cut of your job, Salty Peanut :)

Jib, not job, ha ha.

So ignoring one democratic vote and asking for another is democracy whilst respecting the result of the intial vote is in fact dictatorial?

Er...yes. That's kind of how elections work.

You have one. Then, a little while later, you have another.

Why, where do you live where you only get one shot at an election and then that's it, democracy is 'complete'? Lol.

I know Hamas likes that kind of democracy - they had one election in 2006, and they sure as hell aren't going to risk another that might deliver the 'wrong' result!

Hitler, memorably, also had this view of democracy - that once he'd been 'elected', democracy could safely be repealed.

But maybe, A4710Rider, you could point me to a democracy where elections are only ever allowed to happen once?

I mean, by that logic, we had THE referendum in 1975, so the one in 2016 was clearly illegitimate. And the result can safely be ignored.

Yes? I mean, you couldn't be completely hypocritical and inconsistent, could you???!

Translation of the President's speech:

"I shared and accepted all the proposals made for the ministers, except the one for the Minister of the Economy. The designation of the Minister of the Economy always constitutes an immediate message of confidence or alarm for economic and financial players.

"For that Ministry, I asked for the indication of an authoritative political representative of the majority, coherent with the agenda of the political alliance. A representative who – beyond the respect and consideration that I have for the person – may not be seen as the promoter of a line of reasoning, often manifested, that could probably, or even inevitably, provoke Italy's exit from the euro. This is evidently quite different from having a strong attitude within the European Union in order to improve it for the better from the Italian point of view.

"In response to my request, I regretfully witnessed an unwillingness to opt for any other solution, and the premier-designate relinquished the appointment."

'It is my duty to protect Italians' money'

Uncertainty over our position on the euro has raised alarm among investors and savers, Italian and foreign, who have invested in our government bonds and in our companies.

"The rising spread, day after day, increases our public debt and reduces government spending on new social initiatives. The losses on the stock exchange, day after day, burn the resources and savings of our companies and of those who have invested in them. And they configure a tangible risk for the savings of our citizens and for Italian families...

"It is my duty, in fulfilling the task of appointing the ministers, which I am entrusted by the constitution, to pay great care in protecting the savings of Italian citizens."

Link please.

HateIsNotGood Don't spend it all at once!

topcat1980 I have had a lovely afternoon thank you. Your posts have added a sprinkling of humour to my day

Op, well done at least you got the Italian elections in this time. Maybe the next installment should be the dooms day scenario for Italy that seems more likely if I am honest.

"A representative who – beyond the respect and consideration that I have for the person – may not be seen as the promoter of a line of reasoning, often manifested, that could probably, or even inevitably, provoke Italy's exit from the euro."

So he excpicitly identified it and then went on to say: "Uncertainty over our position on the euro has raised alarm among investors and savers, Italian and foreign, who have invested in our government bonds and in our companies."

So, gonna call me a liar again? It seems for all of your twisting and turning you are, once again, incorrect and disingenuous.

www.thelocal.it/20180529/italy-president-sergio-matterella-statement-english

It is people such as yourself OP who are going to make damn sure any Brexit (hard, soft or just a bit squidgy in the middle) is a complete disaster

I think you over-estimate my power, SaltyPeanut, although I'm touched you think that the Barnier and Davis are hanging on my every word.

OP why do I have to point out to you that elections and referendums are completely and utterly different? How can you not know this?

You are making yourself look a little stupid, better get back to the german language course.