To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

The market reacted to the finance minister, who threatened in a paper to take Italy out of the Eurozone via the back door.

The Italian President used the constitution, as I said, in his democratically elected role.

Who to believe, me or you who is selective in the presentation of the facts.

Who to believe, Topcat or the Italian President?

My money is on the Italian President

(I wonder how much the EU had to pay him to shaft the Italian electorate to that degree?)

The Italian President used the constitution, as I said, in his democratically elected role

Yes, but you used an entirely false reason as to why he made his decision. An out and out lie if you will.

Would any Remainer be kind enough to answer my question? A Hard Brexit isn't in anyone's interest

I voted remain but even i can see that a so called hard brexit is what people voted for and what we will get... there wasn't any other question on the ballot paper.

Sure they ll be a FTA similar to Canada or Japan, but as can be seen by the EU organisations that have already left the UK, we will be a 3rd country.
If you really want a soft brexit, that benefits both parties, then that means accepting EU rules and regs, ie CU, paying in to take part in various EU projects but having no say, plus unable to do other FTA's, somehow i doubt you 'll want that.....?

" The topcat mentality is terrifying, unquestioning devotion to the EU is like a cult following. "

Strawman, I've never said the I was devoted to or uncritical of the EU.

(I wonder how much the EU had to pay him to shaft the Italian electorate to that degree

Well, to be fair, he did change his mind once the new Government completed a reshuffle. The EU knew they had overstepped the mark and backed off really quickly. But the damage was done, we know what they are capable of.

The EU highlighted the fact that the Markets trump Democracy, the EU also highlighted the lengths they are willing to go to in order to protect the "Project"

(I wonder how much the EU had to pay him to shaft the Italian electorate to that degree?)

I hadn't thought of that, but now you've mentioned it I would guess they had to give him a pretty substantial bung.

" The topcat mentality is terrifying, unquestioning devotion to the EU is like a cult following. "
Strawman, I've never said the I was devoted to or uncritical of the EU

The problem is there is no evidence of your critical thinking of the EU. You are even defending the Italian President's actions of all things. Your criticial thinking skills are not reflected in your posts.

You don't sound devoted, you sound very well paid by an EU official to defend their interests on forums.

No one is as invested as you are, even Frank has given up.

You are even defending the Italian President's actions of all things

Not just defending it but defending it with a lie.

The Italian President acted within the constitution of Italy.

Your accusations that he was somehow acting for the EU is utterly fallacious.

The Italian President acted within the constitution of Italy

Not for the reasons you gave/lied about though.

I hadn't thought of that, but now you've mentioned it I would guess they had to give him a pretty substantial bung

I wonder if the EU asked for a refund given that they changed their mind?

Or do we think it would have been good enough that he has now ruined his credibility and that of the high office of his presidency for a failed EU coop so he can keep the cash?

I will be genuinely interested to hear what the Italians make of it next month when we go there. Assuming the airlines will still be operating

Rider you really remind me of someone who does the press review on Sky news , will go off and have a google and come back with a name.

frumpety

Ha ha, I guess this isn't going to be a compliment.

Exactly for the reason I gave, the bond markets reacted to the appointment of this minister because he had prevuiously written a paper on getting Italy to leave the Euro by the back door ( on a Friday night as it happens).

Take a look:

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-22/economist-urging-euro-exit-plan-b-tipped-as-italy-finance-chief

Rider You really remind me of someone was shows independent thinking, conviction in your beliefs and the ability to express them coherently with the facts. Sadly we can not say this for everyone.

So just trot off and google sky news guests frumpety I am sure Rider will cope with whatever you come back with

Andrew Pierce that's who I am thinking of , not a compliment or an insult , just your style really reminds me of him in full flow.

Exactly for the reason I gave, the bond markets reacted to the appointment of this minister because he had prevuiously written a paper on getting Italy to leave the Euro by the back door

Utter drivel. Stop lying, please.

The markets reacted (MARKETS SHOULD NOT TRUMP DEMOCRACY) to the borrowing that the new Government would take, not because of some crappy article.

But it was democratic, the President of Italy is within his right to refuse ministerial appointments because of the constitution. The proposed minister had written about leavving the Euro by the back door, and this hadn't been on the manifesto of either party.

ha, thanks for your accusation of lying though. Really shows the standard of your debate.

topcat1980

But you said it was because Savona was taking the euro out by the back door.

The key part of the text you provided the link to highlights this:

"While the two allies haven’t urged pulling out of the common currency in their government program"

So what you said was a lie, there is no evidence to suggest Savona was pulling Italy out of the euro via the back door

A fair few on here remind me of Kevin Maguire, personally...

Well topcat I could look at a Paper, but really there's so much recommended reading that individual posters say that us stoopid Leavers should read, I probably won't. I'll just base my views on being born into and working within the aviation industry for many years as my base point. To be honest I think the aviation thing is a non-event red herring - truckdriver's points way up thread have far more relevance.

What ?Sunderland supporters ? Mission

ut it was democratic, the President of Italy is within his right to refuse ministerial appointments because of the constitution. The proposed minister had written about leavving the Euro by the back door, and this hadn't been on the manifesto of either party.

Where is the evidence? You still haven't provided it. You attachment only confirms that the two allies HAVEN'T urged Italy to pull out.

Markets should never be allowed to decide an election result.
But that is all bullshit anyway, the EU were not worried about the markets (nor the Italian President for that matter)

The EU were worried about having an anti EU government sitting in a major country like Italy. That is why they tried (and failed) to overthrow the election result.

ha, thanks for your accusation of lying though. Really shows the standard of your debate

Well you did lie, it's plain for everyone to see.

The President gave his reasoning for refusing the Government formation. At no time did he mention an article written by anyone with regards to "back door exit"

But somehow, in your unicorn land, this is why he did it?