To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

Buteo Turkey has a second class CU that’s why no FOM

Spain's unemployment rate is slightly higher than it has been historically, and is coming down, for most of the last 40 years its been above 10%.

buteo

We are currently part of the single market, this means we have to adhere to the four freedoms of the single market including movement of people.

We can't change immigration levels and still be part of the single market, so in fact Lua's post was incorrect when she said there is nothing preventing us from changing immigration because freedom of people, goods etc is part of the four pillars of freedom.

What part of that is incorrect?

so I can assure you that they will support the plan and will leave Gibraltar out of the equation.

Forgive me for thinking leaver "assurances" count for shit. Along with "easiest trade deal in human history" and "they need us more than we need them".

That's my vision of what Europe will be like in the future when the people dare complain

That’s interesting, because it’s what I see happening post Brexit. They’ve already landed their devolved power grab, taken Scottish fishing rights/waters to use as a bargaining chip, and made damn sure that they and the DUP have sole control.

Anyone who doesn’t see that that is a problem worries me greatly. You’re all so scared of what could happen, you can’t see what you’ve made happen.

user membership of the CU does not require freedom of movement. It is purely an agreement between a group of states to charge the same import duties as each other and usually to allow free trade between themselves. It does not require FOM.

Turkey's CU is rated as second class (or a partial CU) because it only covers some goods (not agricultural products) and doesn't cover services.

FOM is one of the four freedoms of the internal market. Nothing to do with CU.

Countries have trade deals to make them richer. That's why they're good things. Being part of the EU makes us part of the world's richest free trade area.

Free-trade has a lot of criticism too, though, aswell as trade deals and exploitation of TNCs taking over industries in other countries etc. A lot of poverty is said to be caused by these "free trade agreements" and regulations etc.

Unicorns

That’s interesting, because it’s what I see happening post Brexit. They’ve already landed their devolved power grab, taken Scottish fishing rights/waters to use as a bargaining chip, and made damn sure that they and the DUP have sole control

Isn't that just normal politics in action?

LifeBeginsAtGin

So tell me, if the Remoaners and Europhiles in Westminster delay/sabotage/filibuster votes in the hope of reversing the decision and we end up staying in the EU, what does that say for British politics and democracy?
they don’t care what it says as long as they have their way the elite mostly white middle classes squarely feel they and they alone have the correct answer as we saw after the vote they cannot see how they would look moderate in many tin pot republics or dictatorships

flibbertyfive Of course Spain doesn't decide on its own! That is the very point no? They can't decide to do anything on their own.

But

I would imagine a great deal of pressure will come from those countries relying on the UK for trade.

topcat1980
Spain's unemployment rate is slightly higher than it has been historically, and is coming down, for most of the last 40 years its been above 10%.

So this is a good reason to suspect that Spain will be desperate not to make things any worse, their economy will completely stall without tourism. Just to also say that you may not like what leavers have to say but it doesn't make it any less valuable just because you don't agree with the points they are making. Making crass comments about covering in glory is objectionable, and a reflection of your thinking skills rather than mine.

Forgive me for thinking leaver "assurances" count for shit. Along with "easiest trade deal in human history" and "they need us more than we need them

But when you lot go full on "Chicken Licken" we have to take that seriously. You're full of double standards.

watchingwithinterest

We are currently part of the single market, this means we have to adhere to the four freedoms of the single market including movement of people.

Nice swerve. That's not what you originally posted and you know it:

watchingwithinterest Wed 13-Jun-18 12:58:26

I am afraid you are wrong about immigration, as part of the customs union we have to accept freedom of movement so we are unable to change the rules because Merkel has made it very clear she will not change one of 'her' four pillars (movement of goods, services, people etc)

You seem confused about the difference between the CU and the internal market.

Out of interest, if Brexit is going to be so great for the UK, why are leading Brexiteers betting against the UK ie trying to make money based on the assumption that Brexit will crash the UK economy??

Hi everyone,
We'd like to ask everyone to have a look at our extremely reasonable guidelines and bear them closely in mind when posting on MN.

Isn't that just normal politics in action?

I could ask the same about being part of the EU though?

A lot of employment rights, hours, conditions etc come from EU statutes what happens when they’re gone?

Trade concerns me greatly too. We’re an island, with limited resources.

The devolved power grab was a u turn on a guarantee, it means all 3 devolved administrations will have less powers for an unspecified amount of time. Administrations which were voted for, democratically by their people. So a power grab is bang out of order.

Buteo In the CU, we could not negotiate our own trade deals

"their economy will completely stall without tourism"

But the UK isn't the only source of its tourism, playing this card is the same as Boris Johnson talking about prosecco and the Italians or other leave voters saying that the German car industry will save us.

Spain would be negatively effected if UK based airlines were not allowed to fly, however, no where near as badly effected as the UK would be by this situation.

GhostofFrankGrimes

"so I can assure you that they will support the plan and will leave Gibraltar out of the equation.
Forgive me for thinking leaver "assurances" count for shit. Along with "easiest trade deal in human history" and "they need us more than we need them"."

The same could certainly be said for remoaners. Your hellish predictions and prophecy of doom really did count for shit. Along with everything else you said with your limited imagination.

But when you lot go full on "Chicken Licken" we have to take that seriously. You're full of double standards.

You're not interested in facts so irrelevant to any intelligent discussion.

Tried to read the whole thread, still cant understand what a 'hard' Brexit is. Either we leave the EU or we don't. 'Hard' Brexit seems to be code for actually leaving the EU, as the UK voted for. 'Soft' Brexit seems to be code for not leaving the EU.

The sooner we leave the better, remoaners seem to be happy to destroy the UK rather than let us become independent, as the majority of UK voters want.

topcat1980

Spain would be negatively effected if UK based airlines were not allowed to fly, however, no where near as badly effected as the UK would be by this situation.

Oh do give over! Because we are going to be so badly affected if we can't go to Spain aren't we! Just thinking off the top of my head, maybe we will head to somewhere else then perhaps, like Bali or US or closer to home....I am sure we will get over it!!! Jeez

Your hellish predictions and prophecy of doom really did count for shit. Along with everything else you said with your limited imagination.

The pound tanked, food process went up and businesses are moving jobs out of the UK. Not hellish enough for you?

I love the stuff about remain being middle class and elitist and looking down on the working class.

If you want to see how the leave campaign leaders think of you then read Britania unchained:
"The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.

Elizabeth Truss,Dominic Raab,Priti Patel, Chris Skidmore and Kwasi Kwarteng,

Buteo In the CU, we could not negotiate our own trade deals

I wasn't questioning that. I was calling out the assertion that the CU requires FOM, which is plain wrong.

As was the assertion that EU countries can't do trade without going through the EU (otherwise how can China be Germany's biggest trading partner?).

Switzerland is rich, self-governing and very unhappy with its relationship with the EU. Norway is rich, happy and self-governing because during the North Sea oil boom that it shared equally with the UK, it invested its profits in a sovereign wealth fund that's the foundation of its modern society.

Margaret Thatcher spent the entire lot of our share on detroying industry and paying huge tax benefits to the already rich. We could just as easily as done as Norway did and benefitted like Norway has, instead Mrs Thatcher wasted every penny with the results everyone can see around us.

Where the fuck did this myth come from that the Tories are good at managing the economy?

Two comments from people I know very well:

1. In days gone by when wealthy families wanted to find work for the family idiot, they either found them places in the Church or the Army where they could do little harm. Nowadays those idiots stand for Parliament for the Tories.

1. The Conservative Party: the last resort of the utter shit.

I wish I'd said both of those because they're true.