To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

In what way did you posting the full fact link debunk anything in the context of what we were discussing.

er, because you alluded to not believing facts?

A Remainer told me just this week that we couldn't use Full Fact as a reputable source.

Which is doubly odd because you don't seem to believe anything remainers say anyway!

Buteo As part of the customs union we have to accept freedom of movement

Wrong.

Are you for real? The entire referendum was built on the back of the lack of immigration control we have in this country.

watchingwithinterest we're learning

Turkey is a member of the CU but there is no FOM. FOM is one of the four freedoms of the internal market.

This is really basic stuff.

With respect to holidays in Europe, I can't find a link to back it up but it seems we Brits are choosing more long haul holidays, Mexico, Dubai for example over package EU holidays, mainly because they currently offer better value for money.

Those in favour of Brexit fall into two camps - the very rich and the slightly stupid or at best naive (illustrated by comments such as I voted Leave because in the North East there is nothing in my area. My kids will need to leave for a better education, career and life and I really do not understand the hysteria surrounding ‘planes not being able to fly. Do you really think the Government would actually let this happen?) To this we can add another sub-group the very rich who are hedging their bets by ensuring they have citizenship of another EU country so they can safely take a gamble and avoid any fall-out if it all gets too hairy. Don’t any of those in the ignorant/naive group not think it is even slightly odd that arch Brexiteers like Farage and Lawson are so keen to acquire citizenship/residence in another EU country?

I'm off for some lunch.

BBS.

buteo Please stop derailing the thread by just saying wrong to everything when you know it is indeed completely correct. If you have a view you generally need to support your argument with real hard evidence and facts, otherwise no one will listen to you.

Good to see Spain knows what is best for them:

There are no solutions suggested in the article. It does however raise the contentious issue of Gibraltar.

Given Spain’s disproportionately excessive response to situation with the Catalan government, I’m not entirely sure they’re an appropriate power to be impressed with.

Unless of course battering, falsely arresting and setting riot police on people for taking part in a democratic vote (which was ignored) is acceptable to you.

Dapplegrey

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-traveller-charge-single-market-border-control-visa-european-union-a8321891.html

Not just us, every country that is not part of the EU will have to pay 7 euros per person to travel to the EU for a holiday in future.

It's "FAKE NEWS" that Farage is claiming for residency. Jesus people.

Lillian,

Reaminers fall into one camp for me. The camp that only cares about themselves and their money, they care nothing for the greater good. They are the type that think Diversity is Strength (it isn't) Ultimately, they only really care about being able to get hold of cheap fucking avacados.

LittleLionMansMummy
watchingwithinterest we're learning

I must say it is quite refreshing not to be called a racist!!

I hope we are able to pay you the same courtesy.

Maybe there is some hope we will all meet in the middle somewhere at some point..at least we have the option to thrash it out which is more than can be said for some corners of the world.

There are no solutions suggested in the article

So you just ignored this bit?

Deputy Minister for European Affairs, Jorge Toledo, vowed to secure an aviation deal with the UK in case of widespread disruption to air travel after the UK leaves the bloc

He said in the event a UK-EU aviation deal does not come through, Spain would have its own to ensure British tourists are still able to visit after Brexit

Right, LUNCH!

Given Spain’s disproportionately excessive response to situation with the Catalan government, I’m not entirely sure they’re an appropriate power to be impressed with

That was a as fine a suppression of democracy as one could hope to see. That's my vision of what Europe will be like in the future when the people dare complain.

watchingwithinterest

You are wrong on your assertion that the CU requires FOM - it doesn't.

You are wrong that all global trade goes through the EU - Germany's largest trading partner in 2017 was China. There is no trade agreement between the EU and China.

If you are demonstrably wrong then I will call you out on it to stop you derailing the thread with falsehoods.

Suck it up.

He said in the event a UK-EU aviation deal does not come through, Spain would have its own to ensure British tourists are still able to visit after Brexit

How is it working out so far given the article is 8 months old and UK is leaving the EU in March?

"I voted Leave because in the North East there is nothing in my area."

People who voted leave in the North East are going to be bitterly disappointed by the impact of leaving.

The North East is essentially going to get worse and worse economically. Without the low trade barriers brought by the SM/Customs union Nissan will go and take the 20,000 jobs directly linked to it with it, it may run down its capital stock but production will be transferred elsewhere ( remember something like 43% of Nissan is owned by Renault).

There is very little EU immigration in the N.E, I'm from there originally but its genuinely awful to sit in towns that were devestated nearly 40 years ago by deindustrialisation and listen to people blame immigration for their woes.

Oh also, can we stop bleating about Eu immigrants lowering wages? It has, to quote the author of the Bank of England report into it, an "infinitesimaly small" ( BTW the report was published December 2015 before the referendum was announced). The impact is thought to be 1% over 8 years, or a penny an hour lower wages rises and only in the lowest skilled occupations, there was no impact on skilled or professional work.

I must say the leave voters on this thread are really covering themselves in glory.

That was a as fine a suppression of democracy as one could hope to see. That's my vision of what Europe will be like in the future when the people dare complain.

You wouldn't want Brits holidaying there anyway then would you? Post Brexit the UK will cosy up to North Korea loving Trump. North Korea, of course treats its people really well, very democratic.

GhostofFrankGrimes
There are no solutions suggested in the article. It does however raise the contentious issue of Gibraltar.

Much of Spain's economy will sink without a trace without the UK tourism, so I can assure you that they will support the plan and will leave Gibraltar out of the equation.

Spain's unemployment levels have reached nearly 17% and there youth unemployment at 35% they are hardly going to see that double. Not to mention the income produced from tourism. It is safe to say we will all still be going to Spain FFS as if that were especially important!

I take it avocado isn't on the lunch menu for you @A4710Rider ?

As I said on Page 1, if you speak to civil servants, whose job it is to ensure that all the necessary action is taken so planes can fly, trade can work, etc, they are all just aghast at the fact that basically no work has even started yet on all the essential legislation and action we will need before Brexit.

That used to bring me comfort, as I assumed it meant that the government were secretly planning or assuming that Brexit would never actually happen.

Now it just brings me blind fear, because I know that Brexit will happen, just in the most appallingly, utterly disorganised way. That will harm the most people and affect our country's future in the worst possible way.

Of course Rees-Mogg, Farage, Lawson, Banks, Davies, and yes, Corbyn, will all be absolutely fine with their huge salaries, vast pensions, expensive houses and often foreign homes/wives/nationalities.

there - their

watchingwithinterest - Spain doesn't make EU policy on its own.

It will make decisions together with its neighbours.

If you go to Spain, it attracts tourists from all over. Like everywhere else, growing numbers come from Russia and China.