To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

@rainingcatsanddog - I do kind of agree with you. Universities, NHS, and many technology/ Science industries are packed and very dependent on foreign workers (I wonder why... but it might be a whole other thread....).

However, when Leave voter talk about immigrants, is never the doctors. So leavers might have their wish, that less fruit pickers, drivers, etc will come in. Let's see if british workers will take thse jobs; and whether everyone will be happy with the incraese in prices and reduction of markets.

scaryteacher

"There are a lot of countries that are not EU member states, where one can work - Canada, the US, Australia, NZ, being the English speaking ones, and then there's the EEA states, the Commonwealth etc."

Really? Please tell me how I can get a visa to work in the US, Australia, Canada etc. I'd love to work in one of these countries, but afaik, you need a visa to work there and they are very, very hard to get. The US is not exactly encouraging more immigrants at the moment, and nor is Australia.

There is nowhere in the world I know of that UK citizens can just move to and get a job unless they are very highly skilled and qualified - precisely the ones who will be least impacted by Brexit anyway.

But where is the Brit who worked as a builder in Germany as in Auf Weidersehen Pet or moved to Spain to get a job in the tourist industry going to find a job now?

You seriously think a UK brickie or unqualified travel rep are going to find a job in the US or Australia?

Get real. Unless you're extremely highly qualified and skilled, you will be stuck in the UK and unable to escape.

"We do NOT want our country to be run by a German Chancellor for the benefit of German business"

It isn't and never has been.

"We do not want to contribute billions to prop up a failed superstate. "

Nope we don't do that either.

"We do not want to sacrifice our infrastructure for unlimited and unchecked immigration."

Immigration has never been unlimited nor unchecked.

Facts help, your arguments are counter factual and hyperbolic, they have no basis in reality.

For what it worth, if we leave with a no deal, yes it will be carnage as it stands, you would hope that companies will have bought supplies in earlier and more of,
Yes we might not have some fresh fruit, bread and milk and tin food will be ok for a while. Yes no flights, longer delays at some docks
But wether you voted leave or remain it will be an absolute travesty if the EU &Uk can not agree some kind of deal even if only temp, if EU will not then I can only presume that they are deliberately trying to starve and hurt ill people and that will include leave voters

At the moment, even totally unskilled British workers can move to any EU country to seek work - and millions do just that.

In future, they will be stuck here, and that's that.

GhostofFrankGrimes
It means the smallest countries are entirely overlooked and unheard.

What do Brexiteers know of other countries? They (other nations) could leave if they wanted. They don't. There is no Brexit domino effect. Europe is watching the UK with bewilderment.

Have you seen Italy recently? How about Poland, Hungry, Czech? I am seeing Austria and other countries. France narrowly avoided it, but maybe not next time. Hardly bewildered....I would say switching on to the realities of what is actually happening.

Europe has in fact woken up. It woke up with brexit as the alarm ringing across the continent. The canary in the mineshaft.

topcat1980 Please tell how in real actual terms immigration was actually limited and check,

@flibbertyfive your error number 5 is a little known but crucial fact that should have been hammered home, time and time again ad nauseam. It's a total fallacy that we needed to 'take back' control of our borders, but nobody would have ever admitted we already had it because to do so would be political suicide. Which was ultimately a huge Remain weakness in being 'led' by David Cameron.

ibbertyfive
At the moment, even totally unskilled British workers can move to any EU country to seek work - and millions do just that.

In future, they will be stuck here, and that's that.

And here we see your anti British sentiments in full technicolour.

You say 'stuck here' I say we are privileged to have such a great country. Why would half the EU be coming here if this was not the case?

"if EU will not then I can only presume that they are deliberately trying to starve and hurt ill people and that will include leave voters"

Why is it the EU's responsibility for us to get a good deal?

We're the ones leaving - it's up to us to ensure we have a workable deal, not the EU. You make it sound like the EU forced us to leave! On the contrary, they wanted us to stay.

But if we want to leave, we can't expect the EU to negotiate with our interests in mind. Of course they will put their own interests first, as is their duty to their own people.

If we want them to put us first, we should have chosen to stay part of the club. If you left a gym, you wouldn't complain it failed to keep you fit after you'd left, would you.

flibbertyfive Why would they want to , the wages and benefits would be lower than they are already getting

watchingwithinterest

You must think the EU is very small if you think half the EU is moving here!

You forget that millions of British workers do choose to work in the EU - about 3 million Brits there at any one time, but obviously people come and go, so the numbers of Brits who have chosen to work in the EU at some point is much higher.

You may be lucky enough to have great employment opportunities where you are in the UK, but not everyone else is so lucky. And believe it or not, many Brits actually like travelling to/working in Europe!

I predict the next big problem in the EU will be the UK crashing out and taking the 40 billion euros with us. Italy having a financial crisis and Spain having 2 active separatist movements. Either subsidies will be cut or Germany and France will be funding that 40 billion.

Trump will demand they pay for their own defense.

I'm ready for it.

Single Mum (who knows, might have to claim benefits again one day, sure they won't be as lucrative)
Recently purchased own house (housing market might collapse- neg equity)
Live in south east - (heavily dependent on European workforce, already struggling for staff)
But come on let's get it over with. Economies don't just go up and up and up. It's peaks and troughs all the time. Let's just do it. See what happens, we're not going to die are we. Might be terrible for 1,5,10,20 years but them we will rise again. That's life. Hopefully we'll be back up for my children to lead a better life. Sometimes the going has to get tough for people to realise what we've got. We've been trailing behind on education and manufacturing for decades. Because we thought we didn't have to bother because the money would just keep rolling. A little lunge to the bottom might do British society some good. It brings people together and we need to learn that the World has opened up and we are now competing on a global scale. We would soon learn how important it is to get our lazy kids learning to the standards of other Countries.

flibbertyfive I didn’t say a good deal, I said a temp deal to avoid the no deal cliff edge which will affect many in the EU, as well as all the remain voters in the uk

We are thankfully leaving this failed experiment called the EU.

We have sources for the skills we need in other countries when we need them, hey we might even get around to training our own children properly.

This part of the process was always going to be a shambolic mess, I am not in the least bit surprised, I thought it would be much worse so I have been pleasantly surprised.

We either come together and do the best for our country, or we remain divided and we serve not the country nor our children with division.

In time, the EU will collapse and perhaps that will be the only thing that appeases the remoaners. And it will collapse like all things that are top heavy.

We will forge trade and friendships with the rest of the world, and europe if it is prepared to be respectful (see precious little of that so far) and we will move on.

user1486062886 - don't ask me, ask the millions of British workers who have chosen to do just that.

Don't know if you're old enough to remember Auf Wiedersehen Pet - it was about a group of British brickies who moved to Germany to seek work in the 80s because there was no work for them in the UK.

watchingwithinterest

"This part of the process was always going to be a shambolic mess, I am not in the least bit surprised, I thought it would be much worse so I have been pleasantly surprised."

Seriously? I am not sure quite how it could have been done worse.

I'd genuinely love to hear what you think has been well managed so far.

A “little long lunge to the bottom” won’t bring people together, it will bring rioting on the streets.

"We will forge trade and friendships with the rest of the world, and europe if it is prepared to be respectful"

I'm sure we will - BUT under far worse terms than we have at present.

Because there is no reason the terms will be better. By definition, Britain on its own has far less power at the negotiating table than the whole of the EU does. The EU is not going to give us better terms outside the club than we got inside the club.

I genuinely don't get why this is completely obvious to everyone.

flibbertyfive Of course I do and the other series, so if the EU will not do some kind of deal, they are totally absorbed of any blame, in a divorce a settlement is usually agreed the husband doesn’t get it all,

we are privileged to have such a great country. Why would half the EU be coming here if this was not the case?

You make it sound one sided. Around 1.3 million British people live in EU countries. The difference is we call them 'expats' instead of immigrants.

Fenwickdream

"A little lunge to the bottom might do British society some good. It brings people together and we need to learn that the World has opened up and we are now competing on a global scale. We would soon learn how important it is to get our lazy kids learning to the standards of other Countries."

Well, baggsie you to enjoy the effects of the "little lunge" as you want it so much. And speak for yourself and your own kids - my kids are not remotely lazy thank you and don't need to be punished by having their economy shat on to learn how to work hard.

flibbertyfive Some of us have some work to do.

Why don't you just leave if you hate it so much here? Just leave now whilst you still can, as you say you might not get a visa for somewhere better like the US. Only one problem you might stumble across is actually getting a job! Good luck with that, the unemployment is sky high everywhere but Germany.

But hey ho who needs a silly old job eh?

Just that small detail I thought I might mention.

I do wish you and all the remoaners would leave to be honest, and stop the endless complaining and go and leave in the EU if it is so great. Ah yes but you need a job....and that is looking spectacularly unlikely given most people are actually coming here to work. And what is responsible for the no job situation in the EU?

The EU.

Shame.

You forget that millions of British workers do choose to work in the EU - about 3 million Brits there at any one time

Wrong, it's just over a million. And that's people of all ages, not just the working age.

3 Times as many EU nationals live in the UK. At least.