Gutted for DD1 - prizegiving

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Devastated tonight for Dd1.

She is brilliant at school. She tries so hard. She has just had an amazing report, great comments and near the top in almost all her subjects.

2 years ahead of her year group in 2 of her subjects.

Having counselling at the moment (school knows) about some MH problems.

2 lots of (intimate) surgery this year and months and months of healing and painful complications.

It was her school prize giving tonight. First thing I knew was her friends’ parents posting on Facebook about how proud they are.

I’m sure their children deserve it, it just seems so unfair that it’s almost a secret accolade for the chosen few.

No wonder her self esteem is through her boots - there is no system to positively feedback the “almost”.

At my DC's school, each year every child in the class was awarded a certificate for "Best ...." . I'm sure that the teachers were scratching about for some children (one of mine got "Best General Knowledge" - i.e. "Almost Best at a real subject but quite good at remembering random facts"), and there were plenty of "Best at Maths", "Best at Spelling" as well as "Best at Being Helpful", "Best at Being Friendly" and "Best at Being Fun". This meant that every child was recognised for something and everyone got a unique award for being Best at that.

scrubthey were achievements but they were totally unrelated to her school. The school didn’t acknowledge any of them.
All I expected was “minihopping has worked hard this year and done well” rather than “minihopping hs a tidy desk but this boy who has been violent from day one and excluded several times can have a trophy”
Simplistic way of putting it but that’s basically what it was.
Personally I thought it was quite funny but a few parents mentioned to me later that they were surprised

This meant that every child was recognised for something and everyone got a unique award for being Best at that.

But this was surely primary school?

I've had 3 children through the same two schools.

Primary - it started that at the end of year 6 every child got a little cup to have for a year to celebrate something - some got the Maths, English, Hockey, Netball, Football, Athletic etc. prizes, but then others got ones for "most helpful" "tries really hard" "most improved". But over the years parents "forgot" to hand them back after a year, so the sock ran down. By DC1's year some got cups, others got certificates and DC1 got a gift card for the "endeavour" from the SEN team. By DC2 - very few got a cup - and everyone was given a scroll with the "footprints" poem on it. By DC3 - even fewer special prizes, some people seemed to get everything (but we'd already reached the 'can't wait to wash the dirt off our feet' stage).

Secondary - the top 30 girls and 30 boys receive a prize, with about 3 extra awarded by the year heads, and a few get "above and beyond" awards or "honours ties" mainly for achievements outside school i.e. saving lives , raising money for charity or competing at county level or above.
But at the end of year 11 there is a secret prizegiving - for those who achieve above their expected at GCSE. Its interesting because the straight A students don't necessarily get these, just the ones who wouldn't have been predicted to get straight As. So you might get straight As and not be invited but someone who got 3 As and 5 Bs would be. (They also go to students who have left the school by then.)

I think the more YOU make of it being unfair, the more your DD May feel bad about it. In life, not everything gets awards and recognition. I think it’s a good lesson for children in a way - they get, with parental support, to feel disappointment and be able to deal with it. I always ask my DD who gets awards, and then say “oh good! I think they really deserve it - they’ve been trying really hard/they find school stuff hard “ etc. As long as you point out to her how well she has done, how proud you are of her, I think she”ll be fine. My DD finds school work quite easy so it’s good for her to see other children who don’t, being rewarded for hard work. Those kids don’t get the great reports, they don’t get to hear the constant praise and affirmation on a daily basis. My DS finds things difficult so I can see both sides. I want my DD to be proud of achievement for its own sake, and to feel good about other kids getting awards, rather than see it as something to resent.

So what if one is born genetically more able??

Schools would do better to award academics for Spelling Bees, general knowledge quizzes, Maths challenges (akin to sports day), leaving the formal end of year prize giving for effort, consistency, behaviour and overcoming obstacles etc.

My 3 dc are worlds apart academically, none of them try that hard. I'd be annoyed if my 'achieving' child got a reward over the 2 children in the school who have lost both parents this year, and still continue to work hard and help others despite being so small and having had the worst year anyone could have imagined.

I totally agree my DC never got school prizes - despite having many talents they were always slightly pipped to the post by another pupil who did slightly better or had more favoured parents!
Conversely when I was at school I was always getting prizes and chosen to lead things or be the poster kid in the local rag when we did a sponsored walk etc
I genuinely have no idea why - I was very bright fair enough but not particularly photogenic - had parents who were totally disinterested and unknown to my teachers, and came from a very poor family
I wasn’t even one of the best behaved kids as always had a bit of an attitude

"Presumably everyone agrees this idea of rewarding effort not achievement has to stop at some point? At the university I work at we give out prizes for best dissertation and best overall degree performance - is that ok, or should we also be giving out prizes to those that tried hard? Should employers be giving jobs to the candidates who put in the most effort, or to the ones who are actually best at the job?"

I think adults are in a very different place to children when it comes to recognition and awards. As grownups, we have a much more developed emotional skillset to deal with setbacks and rejections. Therefore, I'm not sure the two cases are really comparable.

I am not sure that in many jobs there is that much of a distinction between 'the person who puts in the most effort' and 'the person who is best at it' either.

I am not sure the distinction between objective and subjective holds either. It might be true of mathematics, but it can be very difficult to judge the 'best' short story, the 'best' artwork, the 'best' musical performance. I'm sure you've seen plenty of examples of this in academia, too- I always find it amusing to see the papers that are awarded 'the best' at a conference or in a journal. They are often very boring, standard pieces, because the whole process of peer review can often tend to reward the dutiful and the diligent rather than the trail-blazingly new. (Witness the huge number of notable papers that were initially rejected by journals!)

My kids' primary didn't have a prizegiving, they were nicely egalitarian.

Only thing they did was, oldest child in the school presented the chair of governers with a basket of strawberries at the leaving assembly. DD1 was so looking forward to her 'turn' (September born). When it came to her day, they'd decided it was 'unfair' and let the youngest child in the school present them instead.

It actually did have quite an effect on her, poor lass.

I think prizes aren't a bad thing if it's for overall grades and behaviour, enthusiasm etc but at my children's school they gave an award to a girl who had managed to attend school for a whole fortnight and hadn't kicked off. Talk about teaching the good kids that bad behaviour gets rewarded and attention.

I think adults are in a very different place to children when it comes to recognition and awards. As grownups, we have a much more developed emotional skillset to deal with setbacks and rejections. Therefore, I'm not sure the two cases are really comparable.

But you have to transition between the two at some point - and I think secondary school is a reasonable point to do so. Just as I think primary school sports teams should be whoever wants to join in and just for fun, whereas secondary school ones tend to be selective and much more competitive; not everyone can be in the first team and that's ok. I actually think it's pretty patronising to imagine that a fourteen year old, say, wants a prize for 'hardest trier' - that might please their parents, but I haven't met a fourteen year old who wouldn't recognise those kinds of prizes as bullshit.

Our primary school would mention people in assembly each week, for achievement, good piece of work or being helpful etc. Towards the end of year 6 my high achieving, never in trouble DS told me he hadn't been mentioned since year 2, when the whole class had been mentioned for good behaviour on a trip. His teacher was mortified when I told her this, so hopefully has learnt from it. She said because he was always good and his work was always good she never thought of him.
DD is in year 9. They've just had their end of KS3 awards assembly. There was just one academic award for girls, same for boys. Academic achiever or similar. The same girl has won it each year. Dd has consistently done better than her all year, including full marks in 3 subjects exams. ( They sit together in most lessons as are often doing extension work). Whilst it could have probably been given to either dd or the other girl, she was upset that it went to the other as she had had it both previous years.

Obviously very academically able, but him being awarded 12 separate prizes meant another 11 slots for other children to be recognised were gone. There were also quite a few children got 2-4 separate prizes.

Out of interest, is it ok for the same child to be captain of both the football and the cricket team if they're genuinely the best candidate for both? Or should the school be artificially sharing these things around?

@MargaretCavendish you seem to be taking my comment out of its context, my next sentence should answer your question - I guess its fair, as they were (I assume) genuinely the best at each subject/area

"I actually think it's pretty patronising to imagine that a fourteen year old, say, wants a prize for 'hardest trier' - that might please their parents, but I haven't met a fourteen year old who wouldn't recognise those kinds of prizes as bullshit."

I agree - but I think that prizes for 'Supportive friend' (could even be peer-nominated) or 'Bravest student' or 'Kindest deed' or 'Charitable organiser' or 'Most caring' would be well-regarded in any peer group, child or adult. You wouldn't necessarily have to give out one to the bravEST or the kindEST- you could award several. And those qualities are way more socially important than being good at maths. I think it's important to recognise that there are many valuable niches in society that aren't remotely related to academic or sporting success, and that school is there not just to teach kids for exams but to socialise them and to care and nurture their good qualities, whatever those are. (Indeed, I would argue that academia itself would benefit greatly from a deeper recognition of this!!)

At our school, only the departing yr6s get prizes - cups, shields for all the subjects etc. But every child from Reception to yr6 gets to go up on stage to collect an envelope - they shake hands with the headmaster and everyone claps for them. Inside the envelope could be certificates for working hard or shining academically or being brilliant at sport or being helpful or whatever, but every child gets an envelope. They might have 15 certificates or they might have 5 - but the sealed envelope means nobody knows what's inside it until they get home.

@uthredswife im Irish as well and prize giving is certainly at our school.

At my son's secondary school the kids are nominated for Character Commendations.
These go on their school record and are primarily for being "caught" spontaneously doing good with no thought of personal gain.

Cleaning up for a friend who wasn't feeling well, but whose turn it was. Standing up for someone in a tough situation, when it would have been easier to go with the flow. Seeing a fellow student exhausted and done in at a sports event, and taking off their own jacket to put around the other kid.

The teachers take great joy in spotting these moments, and as a parent it gives me hope that maybe they have been listening all these years when you are pouring in lessons about kindness and humanity.

There is still prizegiving each year, and there are still prizes and cups that go to the same 6 kids in the year, but it's the Character Commendations that warm my heart.

I was an 'almost' child throughout secondary school. Did well, but never set the world on fire. Tried hard, but never broke any records. The message in my annual reports was always: good all-rounder, ticking along nicely, nothing special. You get used to it, believe me. And it's really good grounding for reality when you have to start applying for uni places and jobs, and competing with many, many more people than were in your class at school. Speaking from my own experience, many of the kids in my class who got all the recognition and prizes grew up believing they were a cut above - and perhaps they were, in our class/school. But the world is a big ocean whereas school was only a little pond, and I know many of them had a horrible shock when they realised!

Praise your little girl for being the star she is - because she is, after all she's been through, whether school recognises it or not. And thank your lucky stars that she's not growing up expecting the standing ovations to be there all through her life. She's going to be an awesome, tough little cookie and a well-rounded individual, who understands that there are more important things in life than being 'the best' at something. Things like being your own person, celebrating your uniqueness, navigating your own path, and loving each other rather than being in constant competition.

Gosh, I remember this at school. In my secondary school, they gave out Boy of the Year and Girl of the Year each summer. The same boy won it three years running. I’m sure he was great - clever, musical, I think he sang solos - but by the end of the third year it had got ridiculous.

At dd's school the best person in the year at each subject wins a prize but there are also effort prizes. Nowt wrong with rewarding perseverance imo. Some people who are very successful in life got there through hard work rather than academic ability.

I’ve taught at a school which had some great prizes for those who had had difficult circumstances.

It’s a shame when your child isn’t one of the ‘shining’ ones but as they get older there can’t be this ‘all must have prizes’ mentality. If a prize is to mean anything, it has to exclude someone else. ‘If we are all heroes, then there is no glory for anyone.’ (Moses Finley)

We always said when our DC left that we would set up the "Officer Cup for Mediocrity" at their prep school.

Your daughter sounds as though she’s worked so hard and achieved great results against the odds. However, how do you know the kids who’ve won prizes haven’t done the same? I’m not sure I agree with prize giving as a concept, but if it’s there you give it to the kids who’ve performed the best surely. Take your daughter out for a meal to celebrate her success and that you acknowledge her hard work?

When I was at school, I won the French award. I studied German... Don't look too much into it!

This will out me hugely as Ive ranted about it before but DS1's school has merit awards which are given out to a boy and girl at the end of each term so 6 each year (it was a Junior School so 4 years) and the same ones aren't allowed to be picked each time.

DS1 never got one in Year 3, nor in Year 4, nor in Year 5 despite being fairly high achieving. So he figured he'd get one in Year 6....end of Term 1 came and he didn't get one, end of Term 2 came and he didn't get one so he figured that he'd be the last one to get one at the end of the summer term (his class randomly had exactly 12 boys and 12 girls in it). Half way through the final term a new boy joined the class...and at the awards presentation he got the final merit rather than DS1. It also happened to be their leaving assembly and all I can remember is looking at DS1 quietly crying.

Yes it shouldn't have mattered but it did to him.

He is now in Year 8 and has had loads and loads of awards from High School but that one still bugs him to this day!