AIBU for hating the Pampas advert thanking midwives.

[ToadsforJustice]

I didn't have a positive experience with any of the MW I had the misfortune of seeing whilst having my DC.

I find the advert really triggering. I don't think I would thank anyone for the misery and pain they caused me.

What's more horrific than anything is the way the posts of women on here - deeply traumatised, issues of consent totally ignored, left with permanent injuries and damage are being belittled and they're actually being verbally abused, accused of being princesses and just fantasists wanting some kind of dream birth. Nothing is going to make me hate midwives more than those posters posting that kind of thing - basically completely reinforcing these posters' feelings that they didn't matter at all.

I will sing the praises for my community midwife to the rafters - she was wonderful (and she was also openly livid to within the very limits of professionalism when she heard how I'd been treated), likewise the very experienced and lovely midwife who delivered DD2... who admitted my funny labours had totally caught her out unexpected and took that on the chin in good spirits.

The midwives who delivered DD1 though - all they really deserve is sacking to be honest. They destroyed my mental health, left me in permanent physical pain and behaved in such an appalling manner that other midwives are horrified when I retell what happened. I've been told by other midwives that I should have taken legal action for how I was treated, and like I say - my community midwife was bloody livid at it.

My kids are long past the nappy stage - but I'd be dodging the advert like nothing else. The NICU advert was triggering, and made me cry on occasion, and WAS fluffy and oversentimental - but at least it "got it".

Appalled MNHQ are letting some of the attack posts against women with birth trauma stand when they're running campaigns about birth injuries to be honest... but very little in terms of how despicable people can be toward other women on here surprises me these days.

Of course that's your choice, but saying "..this kind of thread won't make midwives want to treat you any better, if anything it could have the opposite effect..." does more than a little imply that such actions would lead to being treated worse, since that is the opposite. I've attempted to discuss both the lovely and horrible in this thread, but I'm not going to ignore the idea that women openly discussing our experiences is somehow bad.

You may not view it as threatening, but as someone who has been told more than a few times that it's risky to make complaints and has dealt with being verbally, physically, and sexually abused by medical professionals...who has literally had two professionals hold me while a third shoved something - it was a white hollow cylinder about the size of my fist - into my vagina repeatedly and left me in a quite bloody bed saying they'd taught me a lesson all because I asked why an internal swab was needed to diagnose hyperemesis gravidarum or confirm I was pregnant (the two reasons they had given for it, I never got the results from that and I was 16 weeks at the time and had my midwife notes so I still don't get it)...who has had a midwife yank on the umbillical cord while shouting until a chunk of my placenta was torn out and then had that now only excused but blamed on me... yeah, reading the same song and dance that those who had bad experiences were likely bad patients and/or exagerating and that saying bad things about professionals will lead to problems is something many survivors of medical abuse have heard many times & makes me sad because it reminds me of myself and many others I know who have been terrified to come forward based on that logic, afraid if they do so it will harm them or someone they know, I blamed myself and stayed silent on that sexual assault for over 5 years because of quite a few things that have been said at those who complain.

You know what's really motivating? Finding out the midwife that you'd finally found the courage to complain about near the end of your pregnancy, who you were told had done multiple illegal things to you in your pregnancy and would be dealt with, was soon after promoted and now has more authority in the hospital. Made me real motivated to get medical care and to make complaints in the future. The system has improved but medical neglect and abuse is still a problem that thrives on silence and fear. I don't think many if any on this thread thinks just talking about it here will make anyone treat us better but it's better than falling into the lies that tell us we shouldn't talk about it.

OP YANBU.

As someone further up the thread has said, basically they are using the profession sell a product, in an area that can be particularly emotive if you've had bad care or lost a child.

I hated their Happy Birthday and Coming Home adverts too, for the same reasons.

When I lost my children I bought a book from the SANDS website and this stood out for me. It was talking about experiences in hospital for bereaved parents"

"If they feel that they were well cared for, they have at least some positive memories among their unhappy ones. But parents who feel they were badly cared for can be left with an unnecessary, extra layer of distress. They are likely to think about that distress every time they think about their baby, and often it clouds their memories and complicates their grieving."

I had two amazing midwives and one amazing doctor who really went above and beyond for us.

But I also had more bad experiences than good. The midwife who kept calling my stillborn son and premature daughter "your miscarriages" and insisting on calling DS a girl because she thought she was comforting me by saying "you're one of those people who can't carry girls so lets hope this one is a boy."

She resented every appointment I attended with her because she "had other women waiting to see her" and I was "wasting her time because if I was going to lose another one at this stage" listening to a heartbeat wouldn't stop it.

The anaesthetist who kept asking how many terminations I'd had and then when I said none clarified "spontaneous terminations I mean." So again, my stillborn son and premature daughter who died neonatally. They were not miscarriages or terminations.

Or the midwife who wanted to know "what makes you so special" when she found out I was having extra scans but not expecting twins.

Or the one who misread information that might not have saved our stillborn son but which might have prepared us for losing him before it happened. She shouted at me and made me feel like I couldn't raise concerns or ask questions.

Or the one who kept shouting at me that I wasn't trying hard enough and wasn't helping my baby after eighteen hours of labour but stopped as soon as the doctor had a look and said DS was stuck and was too big to be delivered without help.

Or the one who shouted at me when DS was born because I picked him up and I was "making work" for myself. He wasn't even 24 hours old and she was claiming he was crying on purpose because I'd spoilt him. She was deliberately ignoring the woman next to me pressing her buzzer (because I went to the toilet and heard her saying she could wait) and then shouted at her when she finally responded and realised her baby was starving and the woman couldn't feed her (because she was hooked up to a drip and bag full of blood and couldn't move).

I could go on but there's no real need. But it's why posters like Balthazar and JellyBears have missed the point, and why I hope Balthazar is never in charge of my care or the care of anybody I know. Not one bit of empathy shown in those posts. Yes I chose to get pregnant and I knew giving birth wouldn't be easy. That has nothing to do with midwives calling my babies "miscarriages and abortions" and bitching because my consultant had said I needed extra scans and heartbeat monitoring.

Bad care is bad care, and it makes a bad experience worse.

And if someone (midwife or medic) says or does any of the things that people on this thread have talked about then that is bad care, and it's not part of pregnancy or birth and that midwife or medic is in the wrong fucking job.

JellyBears I'm sorry for your loss. This thread is about the additional hurt that is caused when a bad experience is made unnecessarily worse by bad treatment during labour and birth, and that is entirely avoidable. And bad care and bad experiences are entirely too common for pregnant women.

For what it's worth I personally thanked the people who provided me with the best care and went out of their way to do so. I still remember them, their names, what they looked like, and I will always be grateful to them.

I don't think a nappy advert is the right way to thank them. It's cynical and emotive in a way that other adverts can't really touch.

chewedup

No one is 'attacking' flatearth. Bit rich to start using hyperbole yourself.

Flatearth, I'm sorry if you're having a tough time. I apologise for suggesting you were being churlish

But I'm afraid I do see it as closing ranks and being dismissive of women to, erm, dismiss their traumatic stories as 'exaggeration'. And who are you, chewedup to challenge the truth of these women's experiences?

Belittling female experience is positively baked into our culture. Women have been dying in childbirth in their droves since the dawn of time and every one just shrugged.

Now, because we tend to survive, we're supposed to cheerfully suck up the horror and the debilitating after-effects and put up with tutting while we do it? Great.

It's not the fault of midwives that we're in this state. It's a feature of our misogynistic culture. But pretending it's sll fine and that women are making a fuss is outrageous.

@dn4geekinderby
I was not being threatening, I cannot be arsed with this, I went on to further explain about how I meant it could be demotivating but you haven't quoted that part have you. I refuse to keep explaining myself, I don't owe you anything.

And I asked if perhaps someone was a bad patient when they had an aggressive and foul mouthed post aimed at midwives removed from MNHQ and then called midwives bitches. As she seems like a bit of a nasty person.

I haven't read your whole reply as it is quite clearly aimed at me and I'm bored of being targeted now.

Thank you @anxiouspeg
@chewedup thank you but don't worry I dont feel like anyone is attacking me except for the post just above which I referenced in my reply

I have gone out of my way in this thread to try and reassure with references to the complaints procedures and ways we can try and avoid crappy treatment. I am hopeful that it is an older generation of midwives who are close to retirement, I think their training was quite different as they didn't do a degree (not that it's necessary but it is a very different way of learning) and new midwives are taught to do evidence based practice so should be giving safer care based on studies, also it might be that the profession has changed quite a lot in their time in the job. Definitely not excuses but just thinking of reasons why they might practice the way they do. Fingers crossed anyway that way we can hope for change.

This thread is very sad 😔

I'm TTC atm and really feel for you and am also now a bit scared!

Flat comments were probably deleted because I used the word cunt. It's no reflection on the midwives reaction to me as a young 20 something back then giving birth, I wouldn't have said boo to a goose. NOW however I probably would call them a cunt if the tried to treat me how they did back then....

I wish I had the knowledge and fight that I have me now as a 30 something woman when I was a timid early 20 something young girl i was then when I was giving birth. Things would have been very diffident!

Right so many believe that women's expectations are too high and that PTSD and birth trauma should be ignored and they should just get over it?

So do you believe there is no such thing as poor care and bad practice?

What if a woman is laughed at and joked about like she's not in the room during a scary moment, is that okay? What if a male doctor comes in and gives the woman a vaginal exam without asking her permission first? What if students are brought in to 'watch' without a woman's permission or knowledge? I could go on and these are things that are commonplace and happening every day.

Why the hell should women be told to not expect anything better and get over themselves? Why are we taught to expect basic decency and manners and respect for our autonomy in other aspects of life but not when we do something as important as bring the next generation into the world? It's misogyny.

Yup. Agreed Scarlet

Medicine, like everything else, is run by men. If men gave birth, by god, they'd have sorted it all out now.

*by now

It's just actually very upsetting and saddening telling women they shouldn't expect respect, decency or autonomy during birth. I think that says a lot about humanity. Women may as well never expect any of that in life at all then eh?

You do realise that midwifes are almost all women don’t you?

But no, it’s fine for them to be treated like shit.

Don’t quote your pseudo feminism here.

Nobody said women don't deserve those things. I said that women expect perfection and are naturally disappointed by anything less. Not that the way they should be treated is inhuman.
Interesting that a lot of angry posters are referring to men when the majority of care providers in maternity are women.
I also know of at least 2 women who said their births were that traumatic they would never do it again, who had future children. Feelings can and do change.

chewedup

Yes, funnily enough I had noticed almost all midwives are women.

The system is still male-dominated. The great, crushing weight of history and culture is still male-dominated. All our attitudes have been fired in the kiln of misogyny. Yes, even women's.

That's pretty obvious, surely?

Also going to continue to call out bullshit, why should I believe everything random strangers say on an Internet forum when it sounds far fetched and inplausible?

3 medical professionals holding someone down and raping them with a white cyclinder because they dared to question why they had an inappropriate swab?

My DH wants to make a complaint to the hospital about my baby's birth. After reading this I asked him not to send it. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was a snowflake or someone who makes a fuss as some people have said.

I feel very lucky that I have my baby boy. Compared to a lot of people I am lucky.

chewed who has said that it's OK for midwives to be treated like shit?

Andiouspeg - well from reading your posts it’s completely obvious

Mila

Each individual woman who works in healthcare doesn't come all brand-new and shiny out of a packet with neutral ideas and no cultural references.

All the attitudes in natal healthcare are born of our historically misogynistic culture that dismisses female concerns as hysterical and irrelevant.

said that women expect perfection and are naturally disappointed by anything less

Utter utter bollocks. I by no means expected any kind of perfect birth. I did expect to be listened to when I said I was in labour. I did not expect that both myself and my son would nearly die due to the fact I wasn't listened to.

Hear hear anxious

chewed What? You're not making sense now. If it's obvious that I was pointing out a systemic problem, why did you make your point about the sex of midwives?!

‘Medicine, like everything else, is run by men’ - well midwifery isn’t, is it?

You’re not making sense at all.