AIBU for hating the Pampas advert thanking midwives.

[ToadsforJustice]

I didn't have a positive experience with any of the MW I had the misfortune of seeing whilst having my DC.

I find the advert really triggering. I don't think I would thank anyone for the misery and pain they caused me.

@readyforapumelling lovely I will let her know, hope you return one day! Give me a mumsnet hint if you do

I for one am thrilled that at least some midwives on this thread are aware that a baby’s life can rest in their hands.
My midwife didn’t believe I was in anguish, decided she needed to take measurements of dilation three times because her first measure was 4cm, and second one (a minute later) was 5cm and she was sure no one could be dilating that fast, and when a senior mw told her to rush me to the OT spent time writing notes until she was yelled at by the senior mw to get a move on it’s an emergency. And after my stillbirth lied on the notes saying I was obese and I had refused examination, both contradicted by fact and the sequence of events.

Many mws I met were great, so I know it’s not all mws. But I don’t think all the nice ones can make up for the way I was let down by one terrible one. And the experiences of women on this thread show that it’s not just a tiny minority who are terrible, but a sizeable number who patronise women, assume they know better and let us down

It's the song that irritates me. Not all Mum's get to push their babies out.
It must be triggering for anyone who's lost a baby too.

I had fantastic midwives with my younger two and also when I had TFMR.
I think they do an amazing job which is being made harder all the time thanks to the NHS being squeezed.

I do think people expect perfection with births.

Nope. Just a baby who’s alive thanks.

(Also, these threads do always go the same way, with mws feeling overstretched and some women having had truly horrendous experiences, but for fucks sake please stop treating us as though we’re all bloody hypnobirthing snowflakes. Some of us actually have been severely let down by medical professionals. I don’t expect you to apologise for all your compatriots, as long as you don’t tar all women complaining about births as princesses).

That sounds awful @bisquick I'm so sorry.

I do wonder what the ages of these midwives are, because there's a certain age bracket I can imagine it of. However, all the midwives who I've ever met who have qualified in the last decade or so have been very thorough and taught as part of their course and evaluated on how they communicate at work. I've known many student midwives having to redo placements or modules or even have to leave the course due to poor people skills as a sign off mentor wouldn't want to put their name to their skills.

Corporations aren't people and Proctor and Gamble isn't society. Surely, that's just feeding into the whole commercialization issue.

I really don't get the idea that most women think it's about homey lavender and hypnobirth. Most I know, myself included, were scared and hoping for competence, compassion, and were aware that nature would likely take whatever amount of control or feelings of safety we wanted. I've given birth on my home office floor, I could not care less about any image or romantic notions of birth.

I've discussed my history of medical abuse with many HCP including several midwives throughout my four pregnancies. My last birth plan was essentially "Sorry I'm terrified and here is why". Most of them were sympathetic and lovely about it and recognized yeah, crap happens more than it should. I really don't think we should scare women into not sharing their stories by claiming midwives will treat them worse. That's often a reason given to patients on why they shouldn't report medical abuse - that HCP are worse to those who do. I certainly don't think that should be done because one person in this thread chose to slur some midwives, which to me shows it's certainly not representative of all the women in this thread, even those of us who have had bad and abusive experiences.

I didn't say midwives would treat them worse, I was saying it's not good for motivation. And it definitely has meant that I will not be staying late anymore which I do every shift which is my own choice, because I am feeling a bit demotivated at the moment. Its not like I am being threatening.

I'm particularly sickened by the HCPs on here closing ranks and telling women they're melodramatic or awkward.

Don't you see?! That's precisely why we're in this mess! Women's pain and medical issues are not taken seriously

This. Every word of it. Shut up with the crap about midwives not having time to be “nicey nice” or unrealistic expectations. It doesn’t take any longer to show empathy and respect than it does to be a dick.

And as for those professionals who are offended. Instead of not believing us, maybe take the stories we are telling back to courses and trainers and campaigners in your field and make sure the message hits home. Poor care (whatever the reason, staff shortages, crap staff) is costing the NHS am absolute fortune in patching up women wotb PTSD. Drugs and psychiatrists and psychologists and CPNs and GPs have helped me, but it would have been far cheaper if there were plenty of really decent empathetic midwives so a woman was never (say) left totally alone at the height of labour in an empty eerie corridor.

maybe those midwives posting here saying they don’t believe it, could call the birth trauma association and ask for some information and education.

We need to educate our children about the reality of birth

Be careful how much you educate your daughters about the realities of childbirth or you might end up like my mother, wondering why she has no grandchildren.

Of course Pampers is creating a warm fuzzy impression of childbirth - it needs people to have babies so they buy their product.

I think part of the root of the problem is that the role of the MW is not valued highly enough. I think another part of the problem that issues relating to women's health are not valued highly enough (especially reproductive health). You get the patronising guff that women have been giving birth for thousands of years: they have also being dying in childbirth for thousands of years. Or as seen on this thread those people who dismiss genuine cases of poor treatment as unrealistic expectations of a snowflake.

In my view, if MW were treated better and women's health taken more seriously then maybe there would be fewer horrific stories. Things would still go wrong but people would get the support and assistance they needed.

So for everyone who has had a bad experience
And for those MW are doing their best in difficult circumstances.

I haven't seen anyone say they don't believe it but I may have missed something.

I hope all the patients were supported to make a complaint because our managers encourage us to help with the Pals procedures as much as we can because otherwise nothing ever gets done about the staff members. Some midwives will have a reputation but until someone names them in a complaint nothing will be done. Especially now that supervisors of midwives have been removed, I would think the consequences would be even worse as I believe they would go straight in front of the nmc.

Reality is you push something out your vagina, most likely rip it, might need something to cut it or pull it out, or if not you need slicing through your stomach and stitching back up. You get a baby at the end of it but your vagina and breasts are ruined, you may get an overhang, you may have continence problems.

But none of that is even slightly a surprise to me - and I think I'd have to be living under a hedge to have missed the cultural jokes about ruined vaginas/boobs, wetting yourself after having a baby and all that. I went to my first antenatal class this week and every woman there said how scared she was. I just don't recognise this stereotype of the women who think birth will be lovely.

@flatearthersphere I did complain and it was taken very seriously. However, the reality is for a lot of people with PTSD this can be hard to do. Retelling the experience to nearly broke me. And I nearly didn’t have the courage to go through with it. So I suspect lots of stories don’t get told.

If you are a midwife and your thoughts after reading these sad posts, are that women are just being delicate. That by not wanting to be cut or have hands shoved inside us without consent, that we are snowflakes? Well you are part of the problem.

I agree Oswin

flatearth Are you really saying you’re changing your whole working practice based on this thread? As in, you always stayed late, and now you’re not going to? That sounds a bit churlish.

And yes, women are being disbelieved here in the sense that the scale of their suffering is being dismissed and their testimony that some midwives were rude/dangerous/unprofessional is being directly challenged.

@nevertwerknaked that's really brave of you. Hopefully this can be helped by the new questionnaires we have to give out after every area of care that a person passes through which are anonymous, because we get audited on these so we HAVE to ensure they're completed. They're quite thorough too so should cover most aspects of care.

I think we do have a problem in the UK, despite thousands of individuals who are excellent midwives. Our culture is poor in this regard, and we have one of the highest stillborn rates in Europe.

I'm not a midwife, I'm just looking at the argument from a stance of the way birth is viewed. I know midwives, that's all.

@anxiouspeg well I have recently been off work as my son has been seriously unwell, I wasn't planning on going back yet but thought the distraction would keep me from googling constantly. So when I've read a thread about how negatively the profession is viewed its made me feel really sad, and I think a few of the posts have been quite unfair, so it might seem "churlish" of me to not want to put in my previous level of effort in, but that's how I'm feeling, I'm human too and have my own life going on and I guess I'm feeling a bit shit. So I'll be leaving on time.

Just jumping in to say that I also find this advert upsetting. I met four different midwives during pregnancy and labour. One midwife was fantastic. One was a bit... disinterested. Two were absolutely terrible. It took me over two years to even be able to talk about my experience of giving birth and I wouldn't risk another pregnancy... So perhaps Pampers should go back to just showing cute cuddly babies in their adverts?!

I think everyone needs to back off from attacking flatearther. She’s said she feels demotivated by reading a thread where midwives have been attacked, called bitches and evil, and anyone challenging that opinion is ‘closing ranks’ and ‘dismissing women’

Some of this is obvious hyperbole. Pointing that out is not ‘dismissing the experience of all women’, but rather challenging statements that are melodramatic or don’t sound correct. The reason why you would need to do an emergency cut have been explained upthread. As for midwives ‘shoving their hands inwithout consent’, that sounds a bit of an exaggeration.

That’s not to say that some of these stories aren’t awful. A stillbirth, negligence and truly traumatic events are horrific, and need to be investigated and prevented.

But it’s in poor taste for people to pile in with ‘yeah, I’m traumatised too, my midwifelooked at me funny’ when people are sharing stories of stillbirths and awful things.

Birth is an extremely complex experience and it is not at all uncommon for women to be physically and mentally traumatised afterwards.

The OP is traumatised by the care she received during her birth. That’s all you need to know. It’s not for anyone on this thread to tell her she shouldn’t be, that she’s a snowflake, or that the NHS is free so she has no right to complain (although btw, the NHS cost us about £110 billion last year - so if you think that’s free I’d love to know what you think is pricey), or that she chose to get pregnant (misogyny 101 - snore).

Also, there’s no point denying that maternity services are not good in this country compared to other equivalent high-income nations. Of course they’re excellent compared to the developing world or compared to giving birth under a bush - and I’m grateful for that. But one of the highest rates of stillbirth in the developed world? Mistakes made in one in five births? The MN campaign for better post-natal care? I’m not blaming midwives. In fact I’m yet to meet one who is happy with the standard of care she is able to provide under the current conditions. So I think it’s fair to say that birth is quite likely to be a complex experience for British women and our relationship with our HCPs is not necessarily straightforward.

Some men in suits at Pampers have teamed up with some men in suits at some advertising agency and thought, how can we boost profits? I know! A cuddly wuddly fuzzy advert ‘thanking’ midwives! Maybe some midwives will recommend Pampers if we do that! And they haven’t given a second’s thought to the hundreds of thousands of women like the OP, or to the human cost of the state of our maternity services, because frankly they couldn’t give a shit about women - whether they’re patients or midwives.

So it’s an insensitive, poorly thought-out advertising campaign and the OP is NBU to dislike it.

I was young when I had ds1 but an adult. The birth was horrific I had one great midwife one awful one. When the nice one wasn’t there no one explained what was going on why doctors had to rush in. I just remember being terrified with my legs tied to the bed. I’m in a different city now and my antenatal care through out has been fantastic so I’m hoping the birth has the same care. I was also told that I wouldn’t be allowed home until I had an implant by a midwife on the ward with ds1 and told if I had another it’s stastically more likely ss would be involved due to age. I had my own home and was legally an adult!
That being said my midwives now have been reassuring and lovely there are so many fantastic ones.