AIBU for hating the Pampas advert thanking midwives.

[ToadsforJustice]

I didn't have a positive experience with any of the MW I had the misfortune of seeing whilst having my DC.

I find the advert really triggering. I don't think I would thank anyone for the misery and pain they caused me.

I was no ruder than you, zzzzz You misread my (perfectly polite, not aimed at anyone) post and called it nonsense.

You haven't followed my point at all. It's not about deliberately following poor orders. It's about a deeply entrenched set of beliefs that colour everything about women's healthcare, especially in pregnancy and birth.

That's world away from following a specific 'order' you know to be wrong. I'm not talking about that at all.

That's why attitudes are so hard to change; they're woven in and can't be isolated and removed like a simple instruction.

I was slightly rude to you, yes. But it's rude to dismiss someone's point as 'nonsense' when you haven't even understood it.

@moofeatures what on earth happened that a baby's head needed suturing back on?
That must have been horrific

ScarletLouise the poor baby was so so tiny and fragile, and had been dead for some time before being born. There was no malpractice or negligence, it was just a horrific outcome. I had other women to look after that day, and I bet they all thought I was rude/distant/cold/just a crap midwife because the mother of this poor baby got all of my love and care that day.

@moofeatures - great post

@moofeatures Thank you for everything you do.

@moofeatures well done for being able to do that, I bet that was heartbreaking.
I think I must have been quite cold and sharp after a stillbirth of perfectly beautiful and healthy twins at term, no cause for it that we could find. My heart ached for them and I spent so much energy on the mum and babies doing photos and footprints and helping with cuddles as the mums partner wasn't allowed a phone at work and didn't find out till 14 hours later. Poor woman.
Then I walked out of there into a waiting room full of rowdy family members at 2am demanding why they hadn't been given tea and toast as their niece was giving birth on labour ward and how was I to expect them to starve and dehydrate for this long as she was only 3cm.

Flatearthersphere that stuff always makes me force a smile and inwardly shout "you've got NO IDEA what I've just been doing"! I find they're usually the same people who moan about us "sitting at the desk/computer doing nothing".

My absolute favourite act of entitled behaviour (to clarify, I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of being entitled - just trying to give you an idea of the more difficult families we have to deal with which might influence your care) was when I was running the induction at and I asked all but one of the women to sit in the waiting room/go to get a coffee because the remaining woman was rapidly giving birth with no time to transfer to labour ward. All but one couple kindly agreed, and gave the birthing woman the privacy she deserves. The couple opposite her refused though, on the grounds that "it's not fair because she got her pessary after I got mine". What is wrong with some people????

Reading some of the posts on here, it is becoming apparent to me that we are heading towards a time when no-one speaks for fear of what they say being regarded as offensive.
Yes, there are some desperately sad stories on here (although I am not convinced they are all the midwife's fault) but some tales are woe are just so pathetic I wonder what we have all become.
Being stared at, feeling bullied, being upset because the midwife commented you looked pale, feeling disrespected because an experienced midwife disagreed with a woman who had never given birth before - for goodness sake, grow up!
I have a 14-year-old daughter who sees drama everywhere, and up to now, I have assumed it was because she was 14
Reading this thread, I do wonder.

I have to say - the care I received whilst in labour and delivering my daughter was fantastic.

I felt the same about the midwife who looked after me whilst I was pregnant.

I found one of the two midwives who came for home visits poor. I gave feedback on both, reflecting their different behaviours.

for @moofeatures and @Flatearthersphere. Midwives must see unimaginable things. Dealing with that is hard enough, without having to walk straight into another room and pretend it never happened.

Thank you @silentandquietlight, as disturbing as it is, it is still rewarding if you do the best you can and try and ensure that a traumatic and awful incident can still be as positive as possible by trying to facilitate making memories if appropriate, even though it is painful at the time

I whole heartedly agree with Balthazar, well said.

I am so sorry to read about the dreadful experiences some posters have had. I was fortunate enough to be well looked after during my first birth, although the labour ward was so full it had to be shut, and the ward was being audited, so they must have been up against it. Some of the midwives were more brusque, others more friendly but I never felt they didn't care for my welfare. Reading this post has made me realise how lucky I was, and also made me concerned for my second labour coming up any second now. Perhaps it will be quite different to the first time. It seems like there are more bad experiences than we generally hear about, and parts of this thread are very sad. Any bad parts of my experience were comparatively minor and they were all to do with other patients on the ward being noisy and inconsiderate. I was in for four days, luckily got my own room for the last two and it was a game changer. It's impossible to get any rest at all on the regular ward, at the time when you need it most. I found the lack of privacy extremely hard to deal with. I wish there was an option to pay an extra subsidy to get your own room. I'd do that in a heartbeat.

@scarletlouise we train for 3 years because we don’t get holidays from may to September like other disciplines do. We’re on placement. It’s 4 years of study in 3 years. I say this as someone who actually already has a law degree - it’s not an easy course, and it’s a lot more intense.

www.homebirth.org.uk/marycronkphrases.htm

These are the phrases written by an actual midwife for women to use, tbh I think some come across a bit rude Quite surprised a midwife is advising women to use them but I do like the general idea of not being easily told you're not 'allowed' to do things

I’ve been reflecting on this today.

I think that the reason so many women are viewing their birth experience negatively is because they didn’t really have a good idea of what birth would be like.
Here me out.
I’m the past, most women would have been heavily exposed to birth before having their own children, because women have birth at home rather than in hospital. Therefore theyd have a good idea of what to expect. They would be horrified at doing a poo on the bed, because they would have seen their mother/sister/cousin/neighbour do the same. Thus when they came out of it alive with a well baby, theyd feel relieved.

Now we are no longer exposed to the real birth, just like we are no longer exposed to death and dying in our daily lives (people would previously have died at home, being cared for by the family). This means women are forming their expectations on cultural beliefs, things like one born every minute, and prenatal classes. Hypobietjing for example focuses on minimising pain and women feeling in control, which is a lovely idea but birth is painful and women need to prepare for that!

Obviously, injury, death and negligence will traumatise people no matter what. But I think the women reporting benign traumatised by what sounds like a fairly standard birth in an age of ever increasing health care implies that we are getting out of touch with the reality of birth.

So many typos and grammatical errors 🙈 Can I blame my phone?

Or women just weren't allowed to be traumatised back then...

And things like bonding difficulties, pnd etc, which seem to be associated with having a difficult birth / a bad experience, were a "thing" (as far as we can tell, seeing as there was no treatment of "space" for them) back then as well...

@Chewedupcucumber I have read somewhere that women who have witnessed birth in person are actually less fearful when it comes to giving birth themselves. I guess a lot of birthing women will have been present at a birth before (like a friends or sisters) but definitely not as many before as I think the culture of 'women supporting women' is dying out as women choose their OH as a birthing partner.

I do think women are pretty well informed though due to the internet. I think most women are aware that poo is normal in labour long before they even get pregnant as it seems a common fact that is discussed freely (I've seen that 'insta' midwife Clemmie Hooper discuss it on social media, on the radio, on This Morning etc various times) and I think that applies for a lot of other labour/birth facts? A lot of stuff is common knowledge for women long before they start families. I wasn't surprised at the physical process but was shocked at how I was treated. Having given birth since then I've realised how good care can make a HUGE difference to how traumatic a scary situation can be.

Maybe better antenatal education would help though? It would especially help issues of consent if more women were better informed

Although I do agree there was more silencing around the issue.
I saw read a quote from somebody from the Birth Trauma Association saying they'd spoken to women in their 70s and older who still carried round trauma from a horrible birth experience half a century ago, often it just wasn't spoken about and women suffered the silent trauma alone.

I remember being treater well during the birth of my only surviving child. Apart from the person who did ny stitches after I still hate her!
The negative experiences were all during losses. After my first I was made to go and sit with heavily pregnant people. After another I was told not to make it all about me because my boyfriend would be more upset. I didn't even cry until I got home for fear of being told off. When I was told my third baby would die I got sent home and told to come back on Monday because they didn't "have the staff or space and your baby is dead either way."

My first midwife was an angel, my second was a bit rude at times but she was at the end of a very long night shift. These two ladies got both my boys into this world safe and well and for that I will be forever grateful, it doesn’t matter to me that they were a bit rude/short with me at times. They do an amazing job everyday, witness things that no one should have to and are overworked and underpaid. I wish I could meet them again to thank them.

@Chewedupcucumber

If you are comparing historical responses to birth to modern ones then it’s worth remembering that it’s probably the women who are most traumatised by birth now who would have died of injuries and infection in the past. So there wouldn’t have been lots of traumatised women hanging about, they’d be dead.

The ones who didn’t die probably did have a different view of things. This would partly be because there were few hospital births and less intervention. And they’d also know they were lucky not to be dead.

Obviously more recent history didn’t have huge rates of maternal mortality. But there have been brutal practices in the 20th century that haven’t been talked about until quite recently. With men dominating journalism and a tendency not to discuss intimate issues, these things haven’t been widely known, but have certainly left women traumatised.

@cathf
I agree with pps who think that unrealistic expectations are at the core of a lot of these rather melodramatic posts.
That and the assumption most pregnant woman on here seem to have that the mere condition of being pregnant seems to turn them into an expert on the condition.
Couple these with the idea - again as seen on MN - that bring pregnant seems to allow you to turn into a princess and is a free pass to all sorts of demands and entitled behaviour.
The result is a perfect storm of disappointment, anger and blame.
Your midwife will have dealt with the birth to the best of her ability but will not have pandered to your whims and demands because, being a midwife, she will know you are not the only woman to have a baby ever, and also that there are probably other women to look after at the same time as you

Being treated with respect and not as a mere vessel isnt being melodramatic, its a basic human right. Some may be good at the technical side but they also must have a good bedside manner, like it or not they have no right to disrespect a patient, mock them, threaten them none of it. Bad bedside manner and quite frankly abuse leaves women traumatized