AIBU for hating the Pampas advert thanking midwives.

[ToadsforJustice]

I didn't have a positive experience with any of the MW I had the misfortune of seeing whilst having my DC.

I find the advert really triggering. I don't think I would thank anyone for the misery and pain they caused me.

I don't have children so no experience but my sister in law is a midwife and the way she talks about some of the women she treat she is disgusting. The contempt as she openly mocks their fear and pain is shocking... she hasn't given birth herself but her attitude is basically that they are all weak drama queens and need to just get on with it. She I said also really judges about those who choose to have Caesarians. No idea what she is like when with her patients but I can imagine!

safety

@nonsuchfun did you just say a student midwife had 'fat' hips like it is in some way relevant? Being as obesity is at an all time high, how do you judge the obese women you care for? Oh dear....

Flatearth. ‘afraid so. She couldn’t run if she’d wanted to.
Just been reviewing some of the bariatric equipment available to the hospital. VERY expensive. Obesity is just one of the factors breaking the NHS.

I am 99 percent sure your views and prejudices are obvious to those in your care. Do you also judge teenage mothers? Older mothers? These all carry risk factors but as humans we are entitled to make choices and healthcare professionals have to respect those choices, while ensuring the patient understands the impact of those choices so they can make a fully informed decision.

I think you sound like one of the older generation of midwives stuck in their ways and opinions, and similar to those who have made some of the women in this thread feel judged and ashamed.

Yes, I do believe the more recent midwives tend to be better.

Every time this thread title shows in 'active', it annoys the shit out of me that it says 'Pampas' instead of 'Pampers.'

This thread is the second instance of someone calling Pampers "Pampas" that I've seen in two days. I thought I was going mad!

I also feel I got better care from the newer qualified MWs.
They seemed less jaded, more attentive to what I was feeling, didn't tell me I needed to just 'get over it', and generally just wanted to build a relationship during the course of my stay.
I'm sure a pp said that they concentrate on patient care much more in training now, I think it is a very beneficial thing.

Flat I was an older mother as it happens. You’re extrapolating a lot of prejudices there. But I won’t apologise. The NHS doesn’t do much to promote healthy lifestyles among its staff and 12 hour shifts and missed meal breaks contribute to poor eating habits. But it still helps to be able to run in an emergency.

I had a lovely midwife and a lovely student midwife .

Then a very abrupt bossy one who just wouldn't leave the fact alone that ds dad ( my ex ) would not be attending . More in a trying to get some gossip way than real concern . and the midwife in charge of my care afterwards was also pretty rude and weirdly just glared at me quite a bit .

Luckily I'm a hardened tough old cookie so didn't affect me really just suprised me .

Yes calling someone fat, you shouldn't apologise

YABU

Agree with Fionna , shall we ban absolutely everything incase someone somewhere gets upset and it triggers an emotion. 🙄

^This

that you need to spend longer in education to care for a cow giving birth than for a woman.
Vets are the animal equivalent to doctors. Doctors train for 5 years because they specialise in everything. Vets don't just deliver cows. Midwives are educationally the maternity equivalent of nurses-they share the same professional body. It isn't about women coming lower down than cows

nonsuchfun it's interesting that you have concerns over direct entry courses. As a former senior midwife and current lecturer i have more concerns over the 18 month conversion course as I don't feel it's long enough to learn what you need to know as a midwife. Yes you may already be able to set up an IV, venepuncture (maybe) and catherterise or even do an ECG but they're clinical skills which can be taught quite easily to anyone. Where I worked the HCAs would do those....not IVs.

Gaining experience in a maternity setting is about far more than those clinical skills. Most conversion courses seem to have been phased out now which is a good thing.

As for that student who said she hadn't been taught in uni to interpret a ctg I struggle to believe that. The nmc sign off each and every uni course and scrutinise the syllabus. They wouldn't allow such a course to run. There is an issue with NQ staff being thrown in the deep end without much support and certainly many will initially be working without having completed individual trust's training packages/requirements. So a hospital may say all midwives must complete the online ctg training package every year. But it takes about 30 hours to do and you get no time. So people do the odd hour here and the odd hour there and after 12 months have hopefully finished. Maybe hospitals need to actually give staff a study day or 2 for such things? Prioritise safety rather than chuck individuals under the bus?

I do agree that sadly there will always be some midwives who aren't as caring or compassionate as they should be. Over the years I have seen some shocking things. I've had to tell a doctor to stop examining a woman who was screaming at him to stop. As a student I had a woman beg me not to let "that bitch of a midwife" back in the room....she was my mentor! But I've always believed in being an advocate for women and went and told the senior midwife that the woman didn't want my mentor.

The statement "midwives, urgh, all about them" is utterly offensive.

To be honest, I'm glad it offends you if that's what it takes to get you to wake up. But instead of wallowing in self pity, wake up some more and listen to the women on the thread, there are many, who have been treated abominably by their midwives.

You say you have "never met a midwife who is all about them". What a silly comment. How on earth would you know what it was like to be in their care?

Maybe, just maybe, you haven't met anyone who has treated a client badly - or maybe, just maybe - you're not listening.

I maintain that midwives need to upskill before they can be widely respected. As a profession they are failing too many, too often. Blaming clients is a very poor response.

I understand where you are coming from. Apart from 2 nice midwives I was treated really badly and felt bullied and abused. I've never been able to talk about the worst things they did. But one of the awful things that happened that wasn't as bad as the rest was a midwife came into my room and told me I should wear makeup because I looked awful, while a few walked past my room, looked through the door and sniggered. I had lost a lot of blood, my iron levels were extremely low and yes I looked awful, pale with dark circles under my eyes. I had given birth at 2:15am. At 7am a midwife lifted the blinds and told me I had to wake up. So after a long labour, giving birth, breastfeeding and gazing at my precious little newborn I really didn't have much sleep at all. So, of course I looked less than pretty. I felt so humiliated and bullied and couldn't wait to leave. So many women treated badly and with their own traumatic birth experiences. It's really awful actually. A hospital or birth center should be a nurturing environment. For some of us it's the complete opposite.

I agree about the 18 month conversion course. Dual qualified nurse/midwives seem to view midwifery as obstetric nursing - which is absolutely isn't - and struggle to deal with being an autonomous practitioner. I see a greater propensity to pathologise birth amongst dual-qualified practiotiners.

The university i studied at stopped the 18 month course a few years back becasue nurses were coming into midwifery thinking of it as an easy way to get their Band 6, then dropping out, or going straight back to nursing once qualified. The qualification/retention rate was dire.

In my experience, direct entry midwives have a more woman-centred approach to midwifery. They still have the clinical skills, but a less clinical approach, if that makes sense. Which seems to be welcomed by women.

What a silly comment.
Why? If we are on a thread where the validity of women's feelings and opinions are paramount then why would you belittle a comment of a student midwife? She isn't to blame for the entire profession. You are accusing her of being oblivious and deaf to bad midwives. She said she hasn't yet seen one. Similarly to those on here who had good experiences, her experiences are ALSO VALID.
Do something with your anger. Start a campaign, highlight it to your trust.
Don't just sit on here picking on a student whose experiences aren't what you want them to be.

Pingu midwives generally dislike nurses. There is a cultural divide between the two and nurses are viewed as lesser than midwives. I once heard midwives referred to as high flyers and the nurses the ones on the ground looking up. Nurses have a variety of clinical skills making them strong at picking up general medical issues in pregnant women which midwives haven't even been taught.

OP I think it's your perspective to not like this ad in the same way I'm sure someone who has lost someone in a car crash wouldn t like road safety campaigns etc many ads will always upset someone.

As for midwife experiences I've had some good and some bad. I had a really stern midwife at the birth of my first who gave me a good talking to when ds was in distress and I was panicking....that didn't bother me one bit she did what she had to do at the time and as a pp said sometimes there isn't time for niceties - I don't think any of this would dispute that. Those that don't act with compassion or understanding are a whole other matter, at change over the departing midwife said to the incoming one good luck with her (awful induction with involuntary pushing at 6cm). That really just belittled me and knocked my whole confidence becoming a first time mum. Midwives need to understand the importance and impact of building mothers up not knocking them down. And thank you to all the fab midwives I did have - definately in the majority.

I am certainly not believing you when I say this but what totally shit midwife would comment on the appearance of a woman after labour. Especially if they have lost lots of blood! Of course you look pale. I have commented on how pale people have looked actually ‘goodness you look pale, do you feel okay? Can I check your iron levels?’

It’s like the midwife who gave someone a funny look for having bowels open in labour - it’s midwifery bread and butter!! I personally like seeing a bit of poo, means baby is coming!

One thing I wish would be focused on is the way maternity units allow women's partners to stay, to use facilities, to eat, and to stay overnight in bays designed for 4 women, forcing women to share their supposedly private space with strange men.
Now that is disgusting.

And this whole midwives don’t like nurses thing is nonsense! Different skills for different jobs. If a woman needs icu nursing skills believe me I am loving loving loving them!

@cheesey you are really rude. I don't think we need to wake up. We have acknowledged some midwives are vile. What do you want us to do? We've already covered complaints, training, what to do if a colleague is being horrible, the new courses, feedback questionnaires...
How do you want US to wake up? What power do you think we have? It is our responsibility to report any poor care we see... As already covered.

Maybe as suggested above, you should put all your anger and venom into something positive and think of a campaign that could help bring about the changes you want.

Also I love nurses, I mostly work with nurses in the area I'm in and they have better intensive care skills than me but then I bring another angle to the care including breastfeeding experience and holistic care for the family as a whole.

We really don't dislike nurses! Nurses are fab, there's no way I could do their job. I have nthing but repect for nurses and I worked with some ruddy marvellous ones on my non-midwifery placements in my 2nd year of training.

There's the obvious difference in that we are autonomous practitioners, and Band 6 from a year into our careers, whereas the majority of nurses work under the direction of doctors and many remain at Band 5, so I see how a distinction could be made between the 2 professions, but we in no way consider nurses beneath us!

Miladamermalada: It's interesting that you are opposed to partners staying over in the maternity ward. I can't remember the last time a woman didn;t ask me her partner could stay overnight. Women overwhelmingly want their partners to stay with them for the first night. Midwives MUCH prefer partners to go home at night - our wards aren't set up for 2 people in a room/cubicle -, but the women want them to stay, as as woman-centred practitioners, we facilitate that.

@cheesey you are really rude. I don't think we need to wake up. We have acknowledged some midwives are vile. What do you want us to do? We've already covered complaints, training, what to do if a colleague is being horrible, the new courses, feedback questionnaires...
How do you want US to wake up? What power do you think we have? It is our responsibility to report any poor care we see... As already covered.

I was responding to the poster who was whining about it being so offensive that some women spoke up about midwives being UTTERLY AWFUL and unprofessional because she "knew" they weren't. If that wasn't you, why are you getting so het up about it? If you can acknowledge that you have a role and it is only a part of a picture which includes THE CLIENT and other health professionals, great, we're making progress.

But no, I'm not here to make you feel great about your profession as my experience of it was dire. If that offends you, that is your problem.