School fees

[Noway123]

I’m hoping for some advice as I am panicking and absolutely pissed off!!!
I currently live in a London borough and my children attend a children’s centre 3 days a week, 8am-6pm, term time only. I have just been informed that if my children want an 8-6 place then I will have to pay for all year round. Can they do this? I’m just about scraping by as it is and now they are adding hundreds of pounds a month to my children’s fees. I work full time, my partner works full time and I honestly don’t know how I’m going to be able to do this.
AIBU to be totally pissed off? Another smack in the face for a working parent.

@sprinkles our staff wouldn’t dare ask for a new laptop, we’d be laughed at

60k a year
My heart bleeds. OP, you are spending too much, the majority of households manage on far less, 20K is as much as some get.
You need to look at your lifestyle choices and what you can afford.

My first reaction on reading the OPs posts was ‘bloody hell, that’s really cheap for childcare.”

We used a mix of childminder and nursery for our children. The nursery charged full fees 51 weeks of the year, regardless of whether you used your days or not. Childminder was always half fees retainer for weeks not used. This was in the days before any free hours too, so we paid in full for every hour we used from when our dc1 was 12 weeks until our last child started school at nearly 5 years.

It’s not what you want to hear OP but you’ve been incredibly lucky to get such a good deal

@gillybeanz did you read the thread properly? 60k is before tax. After my partners expenses which are 18k a year, that leaves us 42k pre tax, 21k a year each before tax. Actually it’s very difficult to live off that. Our outgoings don’t include any luxuries like the gym, they are all necessary bills.

@momo27 this thread has shocked me. I’m surprised that others boroughs charge for term time 8-6, and to be honest I’m still not 100% convinced. I will def be back tomorrow after I check my neighbouring borough. Are you all sure we are not discussing private nurseries rather than government funded children centres?
When my now 5yo started you paid for what you used. When my 5yo started nursery I changed both children to 9.30-3.30. Contracts changed and I was informed I would have to pay 8-6 for my younger child as he was below nursery age. Now that I understood as they were unable to sell the 1.5hrs in the morning and the 2.5hrs in the evening. I agreed to that as I understood where they were coming from. I still dropped my children off 9.30-3,30. Essentially I was paying for one extra day a week that I was not using.
The reason I am so unhappy with this change is because they are able to sell the holidays to other parents.
Also many have told me that I have been so lucky. Why? It’s sad so many think I have been lucky. I’m not expecting anything for free. Some support would be nice.
The amount we clear on our wages a month is not sustainable. But also nothing I can do about that. I am already on my maximum pay for my role and also no room to progress. My partners job is very restricted and def no room for him to change.
I had a long conversation with my partner last night and it may be in our interest for me to leave my job. This is a whole new thread in itself. To be honest I am devastated. I love my job and don’t want to give it up. If I do, I don’t think it would be great for my mental health. Being on maternity for almost 3 years consecutively really makes you feel secluded from the world.

OP, have you signed up for the government's Tax Free Childcare scheme that benefits self employed parents? Do you get childcare vouchers from your employer? I think you should make an appointment to talk to someone at the Citizens Advice Bureau who will know an awful lot more.

Noway - I understand exactly where you’re coming from. My post wasn’t intended to say ‘tough shit’, more that the situation you’ve been having is more the exception, and that many parents have always had to pay shedloads for childcare, including whole swathes of time they may not need it.
Like I said, when mine were at nursery it was full pay 51 weeks a year. Also, childcare used to have to be paid over a Much longer period because maternity leave was much shorter, and then there were no free hours kicking in at 3 years. My dc1 was a sept baby, so we were paying childcare from 12 weeks to literally a couple of weeks before she turned 5 years (it felt like we’d hit the jackpot each time one of our children started school and we ‘only’ had to deal with wraparound care!)

Ironically, you may feel you’re better off in the short term by jacking in your job. But as you say, that’s not what you want and probably won’t do your mental well being any favours. Also, it will affect you in the longer term, definitely for your pension and possibly for your employability.

What about a childminder? They are in a position to be more flexible, and it seems quite the norm for them to charge half fees only for weeks not used (we used a cm at various points and this was the case with hours.) Or even a nanny share. I totally get how it’s really tough financially when they’re small; we have 3 children and we reached the point where day to day we were literally no better off with me working, but I’m very glad I hung in there for the longer term advantages.

There are probably ways round this for you, but it may mean choosing a form or childcare which works better for you.

@snausage you can either have tax free childcare or vouchers, not both. I just discovered the 20% although I’ve been entitled to it for a while. Totally my fault.

@momo27 we’ve thought about all scenarios and every way will be a struggle.
My partner has the potential to earn a lot more than I do but restricted due to drop offs and collections.
We’re really feeling it at the mo as we’ve cut up the credit cards. Which I’m so happy about but that also means we’re struggling to buy a pint of milk. Or having to borrow money off the IL.
It’s just hard at the moment. Probably in the same situation as many. Feeling sorry for myself today as there is a school event on today and I’m not sure if I can go as I don’t even have 20p. It’s a fundraiser so £ is needed.

OP, seeing as they've given you a couple of months notice and, as you say, lots of working parents will be affected, (is this a Sure Start nursery?) may I suggest that you write a comprehensive letter to your MP and ask for his/her help?

Noway - I remember those feelings well; it’s really tough.
I’ve also no doubt that you look around and see people working only 16 hours a week (which is only a couple of days!) and having more disposable cash than you, which feels really unfair. Unfortunately some govt polices over the last couple of decades have created disincentives for people to work to their potential.

However as a woman now in my 50s, I can’t urge you enough to consider the longer term. We are so much better off now than we could ever have been if I’d stopped working, or only worked part time for an extensive period. Relying on tax credits or benefits does nothing for your long term security, and many people will be paying the price for that when they get older, their children turn 18 and suddenly they realise they can’t manage to cover their bills without hand outs. I reduced my hours to part time for a short while when our children were tiny and even that has knocked some off my pension, so the impact is there over 20 years later, so god knows what position I’d be in if I’d given up or not returned to full time as soon as possible. I’m still working full time, but when you’re over 50 the mind does start to dwell on slowing down a bit! And actually when I’m in my late 50s it’ll no doubt be nice to work just a couple of days a week in the knowledge I can afford to do it. It’s crazy that people 20 or 30 years younger than me are deliberately remaining ‘under employed’ because govt policy is a disincentive to do otherwise though.

So, my advice is protect your own interests in the longer term. The state pension is shit, and will no doubt become shittier and the threshold age to claim it even higher. Don’t make a knee jerk reaction just because in the here and now you’re no better off working.

@snausage good advice

Thinking about it, Noway, your situation actually kind of sums up what my previous post was about.

You signed up to a govt run provider on the basis of what the govt was then offering. If they hadn’t been offering that, you might have mad different choices. But the problem with relying on govt funding is that you’re making yourself vulnerable to funding cuts, policy changes... govt whim, basically!

That’s what I meant about people who deliberately work only 16 hours because govt policy right this moment means they’re not incentivised to work more... but when you look at the landscape of public funding cuts and changes to the welfare system, they could find themselves up shit creek in the next couple of years. And even if they ride out the next few years, they’ll get shafted once their children get older so benefits drop away and they definitely won’t have any decent employment pension, working so few hours, and that’s something everyone will need to rely on in the future. I suspect the state pension (already pretty shit) is only going to get worse.

Society has become very individualistic now and it’s a trend which is unlikely to reverse. You need to protect your and your family’s interests in the long term, and being independent financially of the state as far as possible is hands down the best way to be for your family.

You mentioned that you’re at the top of your earning scale in your job, so it may also be worth thinking about how you can develop your career maybe in a new direction. I appreciate that may be tough right now with small kids but it’s something to consider.

Or (thinking big here!) developing a longer term plan to get out of London so you’ll get more for your money, not just in housing but all the other services where you’re paying through the nose. I’m a London girl originally but never returned after moving away to university because I could see that the chances of owning a home and raising a family would be pretty remote if I went back to London (and this was over 30 years ago!) My parents and sister still live in the south east so living in a cheaper part of the U.K. meant acknowledging we’d never get the extended family help that some people get with the kids. There’s always a sacrifice to be made though, so perhaps this is a good point to sit down with your dh and talk through the longer term options.

@momo27 I couldn’t agree more. There are a lot of discentives.
Unfortunately if I quit I still wouldn’t be entitled to benefits, unless I left my partner. Hence why so many parents pretend they are single.
My partner has the potential to earn my wage on top of his if I leave. Which is devastating. At the mo he’s losing roughly £500 a week from drop offs and pick ups. I really don’t want to leave my job. I love my children dearly but I also care a lot about the children I work with.

@momo27 I think the best thing for me to do is laugh. My situation is hilariously shite. There is constantly a brick wall.
We do want to move out of London, exactly for the reasons you have mentioned. But, always a but for me, my partners earnings were quite low last year due to our situation so we can’t get a decent enough mortgage to move. House prices have drastically increased on the outskirts of London. My partners job requires him to have easy access to London. It’s the limitations on everything which are frustration. Every time we see a bit of light there always seems to be a wall.

Sorry just come back to this thread, and I'm probably being a bit thick, but how is your husband's business not commercial so not entitled to tax credits? Does he not sell a service? How is he making money if he's not selling something (be it a product, or his knowledge and skills)? I don't get it. Unless he's only selling stuff to family and friends, then it must be a viable business.

@wonderfulwelshwench he doesn’t run a business. It’s so difficult to explain.
I could be completely wrong but I have called working tax credits and filled out their calculated, and that was when I was part time on half the wage. But he has only been self employed since March and we were required to give his last years earnings which were much higher and included no expenses, so that may be the reason why.

Sorry I meant March 2017

Ok, so yes it might be because of last year's income. But I'm still struggling with him being self employed and not running a business. That's the whole point of being self employed. I was a contractor for years. I was officially self employed though I always worked for others. My "business" was selling my services to another company and they paid my business for that. Your situation is totally confusing me.

So if oh has the ability to earn another 26k a year would that also increase his expenses proportionally? If not then, on the face of it, it sounds like that would be your best option. If you are literally struggling to find 20p then him earning more money and you not then needing childcare is a solution. Maybe not ideal but we all do what we have to

@sugarhunny his expenses wouldn’t increase. Very sad but it’s looking like the best option. Would love to avoid giving up my job though.

@wonderfulwelsh did you need to sign up to companies house?

@hellena like I’ve said before they can sell the holiday slots but rather than the extra paperwork they are forcing other families to pay an extra 3k a year they wont be using. Meaning for the next year they will be losing extra fees. They’ve lost £170 from me now, how many more parents are doing the same thing?

I am getting a cm. should cost us the same as it is now. This means I will need to collect my 3yo and go back to the nursery and collect my 1yo. I’d obviously rather my 3yo stay in the same place as it’s more convenient for me and less stressful for him.

You don’t have to be registered with companies house to be a business. There is no logic to your assertion that you aren’t entitled to tax credits. Your partner is working regularly and making a profit.
Personally I think he must be something like a black cab driver. He will have accounts if only to do his tax return.