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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School fees

208 replies

Noway123 · 07/06/2018 18:18

I’m hoping for some advice as I am panicking and absolutely pissed off!!!
I currently live in a London borough and my children attend a children’s centre 3 days a week, 8am-6pm, term time only. I have just been informed that if my children want an 8-6 place then I will have to pay for all year round. Can they do this? I’m just about scraping by as it is and now they are adding hundreds of pounds a month to my children’s fees. I work full time, my partner works full time and I honestly don’t know how I’m going to be able to do this.
AIBU to be totally pissed off? Another smack in the face for a working parent.

OP posts:
MollyDaydream · 07/06/2018 20:42

Unfortunately children's centres have had their funding cut massively and lots are being closed - they have no choice but to become financially viable.
They haven't targeted working parents, it will simply be a business decision to maximise their income and stay open.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 07/06/2018 20:48

if either parent is self employed then you are not entitled to childcare vouchers

100% not true. We get them with DH being self employed, and self employed people can now get them!

A lot of what you're saying doesn't add up OP, it could be my maths but I don't understand how you'd have to fork out hundreds more when you'd get 30 free term-time hours - even with paying wraparound care. There are more term-time hours in the year than there are non-term time hours so how could it possibly be more expensive?

Thinking about my DS Nursery, they charge £48 for a 8-6 day. Over 3 days, that's £144. 39 weeks a year makes it £5616 TTO
If I got 30 free hours (TTO) but had to pay wraparound care for the rest of the year, the total cost for 52 weeks would be £7,488. Minus 1140 hours at £5472 would be £2016 for you to pay.

Also I'm gonna be the one to say it - with an income of £5k a month how is it you don't have £1 spare?!

Original poster
Noway123 · 07/06/2018 21:18

@cherry I pay £398 for my 3yo for 3 days a week. In sep he was going to get his 30 hours free a week and he would change to 5 days a week and we would pay for the extra 2 days. Which would have saved us an extra £100 a month. Now I would have to pay an extra 13 weeks a year, full rate with no 30 hours free.
My partners job incurs HUGE expenses so that’s where a lot of the money goes. The rest are loans, as I mentioned above, mortgage, bills, food and childcare.

OP posts:
GreatBigHooandToodleloo · 07/06/2018 21:24

You might be entitled to the child care element of tax credits. Not the working tax credits but the childcare element. If you are, it won't be much but it's free money

I use 2 childminders. Both don't charge for school holidays unless I use them during those holidays.

Original poster
Noway123 · 07/06/2018 21:27

It would have cost me an extra £210 a month.
Thanks for all your advice. Ive worked out that if I change both children to TTO I can get a childminder to drop off and collect and should cost me roughly the same as it does now. I may not get my extra £100 a month in sep, buy at least I don’t have to panic about finding an extra £210 a month.

OP posts:
Magstermay · 07/06/2018 23:37

You can still get the 30 hours free if he is full time, it just only covers hours during term time - you pay the full amount during the ‘holidays’.

Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 07:01

If I stick with the nursery it will still cost me an extra £210 each month on top of what I’m paying now.

OP posts:
itstimeforanamechange · 08/06/2018 08:07

My partners job incurs HUGE expenses so that’s where a lot of the money goes

Is he self-employed? If not, he needs to be very efficient in claiming them back from his employer. And making clear he doesn't give his employer interest-free loans, he wants reimbursing promptly. If he is self-employed, where can he find cheaper suppliers?

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 08/06/2018 08:21

If your OH is self employed he needs to claim the costs as part of his business, meaning your income shows to HMRC as a lot less than £60k, meaning you'd likely get tax credits.

I see what you mean I didn't realise you wanted to up childcare to 5 days, but yes that would cost ££ - are you certain you can't claim the 30 free hours?? I don't see any reason why you couldn't!

Yura · 08/06/2018 08:33

@CherryChasingDotMuncher in much if london and southeast, the 30 hours plain simply don't exist. councils pay less than the running costs of a childminder or nursery, so some don't offer funded hours at all, most offer 15 hours, but you need to commit to send your child for more to make up the loss. 30 hours is rarely offered as it would bankrupt the nursery

Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 08:48

30 hours free was rolled out last year for any child, the term after their third birthday. My son was born in April so he will be entitled to the 30 hours in sep.

I had another read of the PDF for fees this morning. The 30 hours seem to be described differently now. So I may not even be entitled to that anymore. Let’s hope I am. It also seems as though they have deleted the sibling discount too. Meaning my 1yo wont receive a 25% discount anymore.
I understand what everybody is saying but could you imagine using a nursery for the past 5 years and suddenly every incentive is removed and your fees increasing by such a huge amount. I personally think they should honour what they had initially written in their contract and the new fees implemented for new families. Tbh I think it’s shitty all round.
Also how does this not hit working families harder? You can have the option to pay TTO at 9.30-3.30 but not 8-6. Which are the hours most people work.

OP posts:
Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 08:49

@yura in London any child receives 30 hours free childcare, the term after their third birthday, unless both parents have a combined income of 100k a year.

OP posts:
espoleta · 08/06/2018 08:58

OP I believe the 100k threshold is for either or. Not combined.
How is your partners business set up? If it's a ltd company you should be able to get childvouchers.
Simply put, it sucks but as far as I'm aware what they describing are pretty standard practices for implementing the 30free hours.
It's just shit all round...

Yura · 08/06/2018 08:59

@Noway123 if the nursery offers it!
most don't or only a few places. and if fhey do, you will often have to commit to full time nursery, including holidays (as you are currently finding out) to finance the shortfall

FASH84 · 08/06/2018 09:07

OP it really sounds like your DH needs a better accountant. My DB is self employed and his accountant sorts all of this stuff out for him via his ltd company.

pinkdelight · 08/06/2018 09:43

For those saying to use another provider, I suspect any other provider would cost a lot more anyway. Those fees OP is paying are incredibly low for London. TTO is pretty rare too, esp for the hours she wants. Sorry OP, but you just have to run at a loss during those childcare years if you live in London, which is why we had to stop at two DC. Unless you really space them out it's a killer. Sure it doesn't feel like it but I'm afraid you've been lucky to be paying as little as you have so far.

HellenaHandbasket · 08/06/2018 09:47

But only people who work tto are incentivised by tto. Everyone else is working in the hols.

PotteringAlong · 08/06/2018 12:17

It’s not a combined income of £100k; it’s if a single salary exceeds that.

I’m a teacher. Tax free childcare is better for me so I’ve signed up to that. It will save you money!

Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 12:19

These fees are across the board in my borough. Always have been. That’s why I accepted a place at a government run nursery. Private nurseries can charge whatever they want. Government ones cannot. Many have said it is cheap. It is not cheap at all. My child is 3 meaning it is cheaper. If my child was not in nursery but in baby room/toddler room it would be costing me £800 a month TTO. Sorry but that is not cheap.

OP posts:
Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 12:20

My partner is very restricted. I don’t want to put myself by saying what he does but there is no room for cheaper expenses.
His accountant is shite but he won’t listen as everyone in his trade uses this accountant.

OP posts:
Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 12:21

I do tax free at the moment but it works out at about 17% off.
I really hope this isn’t going to affect our tax free allowance.

OP posts:
Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 12:26

Also TTO is not rare at all. Only rare now as they have decided not to offer it.

OP posts:
mcqueencar · 08/06/2018 13:39

The 100k limit is individual so a couple can earn 99k each and claim the 30 hours but you do have to work 16+. The government aren’t stupid, they are encouraging parents to work to increase the tax uptake. Someone earning 20k is unlikely to use f/t childcare as their wage would be zero after paying for it. However if someone is on 40k the gov get more tax & NI by offering the 30 hour incentive & keeping that person in work.

Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 16:41

@mcqueencar the sad thing is 20k is pretty average for a full time position in London. Especially is retail which will prob be lower. I’m not that far off 20k and I work full time.
It’s a catch 22 for the middle earners.

OP posts:
Original poster
Noway123 · 08/06/2018 16:44

@mcqueencar unfortunately what most parents do is work out a contract with their employer so they work 16hrs a week which entitles them to a lot more benefits. This tends to be single parent families. Please don’t think I’m knocking it. I would totally do the same thing if I was in the same position. I think the government need more incentives for parents to work more than 16hrs or if they are not working then they I don’t think any free childcare should be offered.

OP posts: