School fees

[Noway123]

I’m hoping for some advice as I am panicking and absolutely pissed off!!!
I currently live in a London borough and my children attend a children’s centre 3 days a week, 8am-6pm, term time only. I have just been informed that if my children want an 8-6 place then I will have to pay for all year round. Can they do this? I’m just about scraping by as it is and now they are adding hundreds of pounds a month to my children’s fees. I work full time, my partner works full time and I honestly don’t know how I’m going to be able to do this.
AIBU to be totally pissed off? Another smack in the face for a working parent.

I’m not eligible.

It is not commercial

So basically you are saying that they should change the contracts of the staff to TTO so that you can get the holidays for free. So the staff member has no work or wages......

They do have to cover costs and as parents we need to contribute to their childcare.

Unemployed only get 15 hours as far as I’m aware. Most nurseries attached to schools are Term time only. So would that be an option.

I didn’t get the 30 hours with my eldest so still jd big nursery bills with her. I am really grateful to get them with my youngest and it has made a massive difference to our lives. But I also know that it has made it really difficult for nursery’s to survive. I would actually happily pay a top up fee to the nursery per hour but this is not allowed. So they have to do it whatever way they can to survive and be able to pay staff wages.
I think my nursery does not do the 30 hours Term time only. We get 20.9 hours across the whole year. That suits me though and then I pay for the wraparound for the extra hours.
You have got something sorted which is good.
But few parents can work, have a 3 year old and not pay anything for their childcare

@yura completely agree with you
30 hours ‘free’ basically doesn’t exist in London as they don’t receive enough money to make it work. So they just make the fees up elsewhere , or don’t offer it in the first place

Your DH's work sounds odd. Huge expenses but not commercial?

@luckymum
They have been running like this for years. Our wages haven’t increased in YEARS but yet the fees rise every year. There are less staff who work over the holidays as there are less children. Some staff are on TTO contracts in the children’s centre. Like I said before, every parents fees are averaged out throughout the year so payments are made every month of the year. The same way my wages are paid. I don’t get paid for holidays but my wage averaged throughout the year.
I also missed out on my daughter getting the free 30 hours. If both my children were born two weeks earlier I would have saved thousands over the years. But as it’s the term after their third birthday so I wasn’t entitled. But that’s just the way it is.
I can’t apply to a nursery in a school as I can’t be in 3 places at once. This childminder is the closest to the nursery my children attend. If I finish at 5 I wouldn’t have time to travel to collect my son and then travel back to my 1yo. He is still eligible to do 5 days at this nursery 9.30-3.30 but the whole point is that we need 8-6, due to my working hours. My child would be in the same setting throughout the day, which I’d obvs prefer and would be much better for my child.
I’m not expecting to pay nothing. I’m just not expecting to pay hundreds of pounds for a provision I don’t want or need.
They now offer TTO 9.30-3,30 or AYR 8-6. Why have they deleted TTO 8-6? Why not delete TTO altogether, if funding is the issue? They have actually lost money from me now, as many other parents are also doing. They cannot sell an 1.5hrs in the morning and 2.5hrs in the evening. So they have lost out on that money. I can’t see how this is beneficial and would earn the setting more money. The only people this affects are people who currently do TTO 8-6. Like I said before they are asking parents to pay over an extra £200 a month for something they are not using. Most have opted for what I am doing. Meaning the nursery are now losing money as they can’t sell the full place.

@missgiddy I know, I wish I could explain more.
He’s self employed but it is not a registered business. Very confusing I know.

I do get your annoyance.

But I suspect they have had a year of offering the contract you are on. And it sounds as if a fair few have the same. They have realised it’s not financially viable so they are having to make some changes.
It may be that you are right and they have made the wrong decision and will lose more money.

Or they may get more children in whose parents require year round childcare and the wraparound fees that they can charge will make them viable.

@luckymummy
I’ve been given 3 months notice for my son and they are honouring my daughters contract for a year. But I’m also unhappy with that as they will not allow me to change her to TTO 9.30-3.30. They are making me pay 8-6 TTO. When obviously I’d prefer my childminder to collect both of them. But now i will have to collect my son and then my daughter. There seems to be zero flexibility.
You’re probably right but it will be a long term plan. They’ll probably reduce the number of TTO contracts and increase AYR. I know they are legally required to offer x amount of TTO contracts. Unless that number changes then it wouldn’t be viable.

How can it be a business if it's not commercial? That just means he sells things/time/skills and people pay him for it and he makes a profit after expenses. That clause is there to stop people setting up cupcake businesses in their kitchen and selling them at a loss to mates in order to qualify for WTC

@orchid it is not a business. If I told you you’d completely understand. He is classed as self employed but he does not own his own business.

Uber driver

I think you're misunderstanding the eligibility for tax credits. Have you actually phoned and spoken to them? If you're not eligible then perhaps your oh needs to look at doing something where he can support his family.

@sugarhunny I’ve called, filled out the forms numerous times and def not eligible.
My OH works very long hours and studied for a very long time to do what he wanted to do. Unfortunately the times he makes the most money are the times where we drop off and collect the children.
It really is a catch 22. My partner would earn a lot more if I gave up work, but that’s also means he would need to find a lot more £££ so he could support me as well. But that also means he’d be working around the clock.
We just need to wait for all three to be in primary. That’s why we were so looking forward to saving £100 on my son from sep.

The 2 year funding is not free childcare for parents, it was designed as early support for disadvantaged children who may otherwise have been behind when they started school

@insancerre what is classed as disadvantaged. Why are we not disadvantaged as we struggle to make ends meet?
There are many children’s centres who offer daily drop in clubs for 2yo. This is where both the child and parents are supported. Why not concentrate in supporting the family using a long term plan, rather than having free childcare?

We have an ad hoc arrangement with our nursery, perhaps see if others in your area can offer this?

Rather than putting more funding into free childcare why not put more money into schools? I can’t even order pencils at the moment as there are no funds. Primary schools are struggling immensely. ALL positions have recently been deleted where I work except TA’s. The SENCO, SENTA’s, reading support, family liaison officer, lunch time staff, the list goes on. But yet there is money to offer free childcare.
Some days I actually get so emotional at the state of our schools.

The criteria is on benefits, looked after, or SEN
Also I think forces children and gypsy children can get it too

It isn't viewed as childcare, it is viewed as an early intro to school to ensure kids are getting what they need. You have a decent combined salary, it isn't anyone else's fault that your outgoings are high and that your partner is employed in pretty much the only loophole that means he isn't eligible for much despite having huge overheads/self employed.

Perhaps he needs to rethink careers?

Look I know this is frustrating, but the setting is changing its business model and you will have to go with this, or find another provider. People have made lots of suggestions above.

@downthrroad if you look at my comments you will see that I have taken the advice and have chosen an option.
@helena it is viewed as childcare below the age of reception age. It is not compulsory and is a priviledge. A 2yo is not required to attend any setting. Like I said before rather than pumping money into something which isn’t working. Start funding the currently crumbling education we have in the UK.

It's not viewed as childcare
It's early years education

One of my main points being is that any government initiative being offered is essentially a con as one way or another they find a way of taking that money back from you.
All staff are paid badly, no wage increase, no staff discount. They’ve now taken away sibling discount. What more can they take away?

@insancerre would you class a childminder as early years education? If no then why, they are offering the same as a setting? A person to care and provide for them? The only thing missing would be the fact that a setting had more resources available to them? Resources which desperately need replacing.