School fees

[Noway123]

I’m hoping for some advice as I am panicking and absolutely pissed off!!!
I currently live in a London borough and my children attend a children’s centre 3 days a week, 8am-6pm, term time only. I have just been informed that if my children want an 8-6 place then I will have to pay for all year round. Can they do this? I’m just about scraping by as it is and now they are adding hundreds of pounds a month to my children’s fees. I work full time, my partner works full time and I honestly don’t know how I’m going to be able to do this.
AIBU to be totally pissed off? Another smack in the face for a working parent.

@melanie
Not entitled to childcare vouchers as my partner is self employed.

One year old can stay the same for one more year

I will need to pay for my son for another year.

Will definitely look into teaching trust etc

Can’t afford another loan. Have had to borrow 10k since sep as my property needed work. Couldn’t say no as I live is a share of freehold. We have to pay £300 a month on that. So that’s obviously a huge strain already.

The reason one child goes weds-thurs and the other thurs-weds is because the weds is a hard day to get due to part time children doing either mon-weds or weds-thurs. this children’s centre has a huge waiting list.

My partners mother watches my other children mon-weds as she was made redundant at Xmas. She’s looking for another job hence my son going full time in sep. Not even sure what’s going to happen with my 1yo now as the fees have increased so much.

At the mo my partner is working everyday and some nights just to cover our bills.

thats a bugger..
dd3s nursery (private) did tto contracts and v popular with teachers. they made the money up by running a holiday club for 4 to 8s.

They are happy to provide 9.30-3.30 childcare TTO but if you need a full 8-6 day then it will have to be all year round. That’s why I think working parents have been targeted.

You need to find alternative term time Childcare. All government centres/sure start/children’s centres have been shut down round here. My Childminder offers term time only so you have plenty of notice start looking now. Start with a list of CMs from your council website. Also worth asking other mums for reccomendations.

Also if you’re in a school there is a Childminder here that does 730-4pm term time only. It’s stressful but start looking now!

This sounds like its actually being driven by however your council is implenting the 30hrs "free" funding. Basically the nurserys make a loss on it and there are all sorts of restrictions on how they can & cant top up and annualise the hours. The funded hours are normally blocked into sessions and 8-6 is more than 2 half day sessions. To keep the funding books straight the council may be pushing the child care providers to either offer TTO funded hours sessions or year round care with annualised subsidy. Because you want full time TTO you dont fully fit either financial model.

It may be worth asking what they can offer you around the TTO funded hours & seeing if you can find a cm to cover any gaps between the end of sessions and whenever you can pick up

I imagine lots of people who have three young children would find childcare costs high. Maybe that should have been a consideration? I’m not having a go, I have three myself but you’re the one moaning about how much they cost.

It sounds like you will get your 30 hours for your three your old in Sept which will help and your one year old’s contract stays the same til he’s three after which he will also get the 30 hours. That should help?

I also don’t understand how your partner being self employed stops you getting childcare vouchers from your employer?

@georgie I’m not moaning on how much they cost I’m moaning at being forced to pay for hours and days that I do not want/need. Also something I did not agree to when I accepted the place. This has been forced upon a huge number of families in my borough.
I didn’t apply to a private business I applied to a government funded nursery so they could offer flexibility.

@magster if either parent is self employed then you are not entitled to childcare vouchers.
In sep I was planning on my son going full time so I’d be paying £100 less a month but now I will be paying more instead of less.

I don't understand what you are saying re childcare vouchers. My DH was self employed for years and we both claimed vouchers. And what about tax free childcare? It's not the case that if your self employed you or your partner can't access help with childcare costs.

If you are not entitled to childcare vouchers, you can still get tax-free childcare, which may work out better for you anyway.

At my DDs Nursery 30 hours children do 4x 5hour sessions usually either morning or afternoon and then 1 full day. But you have to pay to cover lunchtimes, and meals. They also open at 7am and close at 6pm but funded hours can only be used 8-1pm or 1pm -6pm so you have to pay for the extra morning hour or extra sessions if you want more than 1 full day and 4 halfs. Could it be something like that? And that their hourly rate is higher for a 3 year old than it is for a 2 year old?

www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/tax-free-childcare

You're entitled to this. Do you claim it?

We had a nasty surprise the other week as I hadn't fully realised (despite having been to the meeting where they explained it) that basically DS does not get any funded hours over the summer holidays. In fact his funding runs out almost exactly when DH goes back to work and DD starts full time with no subsidy at all So the month I thought we would have a bit of spare cash we are actually skint. Again.

So how much is your current nursery fees?
And how much will they be in the future?
How will the distribute the 30 hours which you are entitled too.

And call me stupid but I thought the childcare vouchers were done individually. So not linked to partner at all. I can’t recall getting asked any details about DH’s employment when I signed up. And as far as I’m aware the scheme is open until October now.
Tax Free is something that everyone is entitled too (unless earning really high amounts) although I don’t think it’s a good as voucher scheme in the king run.

I’ve really confused myself now. I read on .gov and called to confirm and was told I was not eligible for the vouchers due to my partner being self employed. I’ve just had a look and I must have imagined it. But it seems as though they are taking that away on Oct 18 anyway.
I do get the tax free childcare but only discovered that 2 months ago, which annoyed me too (totally my fault) but that pissed me off too. I’m gonna have another moan at that too 😂😂😂, don’t slate my too hard. It’s technically not 20% and find it cheeky if the government to do it in this way. I only receive 20% if I pay in the full fees, meaning I’d get a month off at the end of the year. If I pay a reduced rate each month, which is obviously more beneficial for me then I only get about 17%.

And my tax code has changed since doing it. I’m also worried it may affect my partners tax free allowance. I honestly don’t know if that’s the case but have I just recently started using it so could be totally wrong.

The scheme will close in October but if you’re already in it you can stay in it. Definitely look into vouchers. It might be that tax free childcare is actually better for you at the moment as you have 2 in nursery. For me that was the case but now I have 1 in school and 1 getting 30 hours, voucher scheme is better

You're still confused, OP. If you join the voucher scheme before October, you can carry on claiming afterwards as long as you stay with the same employer.

Have a look at this OP, you should be able to get some free hours, even when DH is self employed:

www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/free-childcare-and-education-for-2-to-4-year-olds

Have you discussed your situation with the nursery manager/owner? Are you able to compromise with them?
My youngest ds attends a nursery that changed our contract like this, for the same reason. They wanted to charge an extra 10% on monthly fees, plus only offer 8am-6pm to TTO families not eligible for the “free” 30 hours unless we switched to all year round care. We only need TTO and 8am-3pm so I was against having to pay extra for hours/fees we didn’t need. After discussing it with the manager (and threatening to take our business to another care provider), we agreed to switch to all year round but they would only charge me for one morning session a week in the holidays.
It actually works well as I get to spend some one-on-one time with my other ds once a week doing outings not suitable for a toddler and it’s not costing us a fortune in hours we don’t need.

I don’t like to say it, but you have been very lucky so far. Here (outer London) termtime only contracts don’t exist (except for pre-schools, and they do 9:30-12:00 or so). Start looking for a childminder now, they will be hard to find. Reality is that the so-called Funded hours make a loss for nurseries and childminders around London (our council pays £4 an hour, going rate is £6.50), so the money needs to come from somewhere else (only really bad nurseries desperate for kids offer 30 hours here, 15 is the maximum d event ones offer - they just can’t afford it)

Op you should review both the current voucher scheme and the future one to decide if it's worth you changing to the new scheme.

Your partner needs to speak with his accountant. I was self employed (via my own Ltd co). The Company could pay as a business expense some of my childcare fees - provided the same benefit was available to ALL employees - it was available too ALL as I didn't employ anybody else.

The bottom line is you have 3 kids = expensive childcare. The council need to fill places as they need to pay their staff.

Childcare vouchers closes to NEW ENTRANTS from October. As long as you register now you'll be able to carry on claiming them beyond October. You have a good combined income. About the same as me and my dh and our dd costs us £900 a month in term time only nursery and she's not even two! Could you move? Otherwise you need to look into a childminder.