To think a lot of left wing people are actually close minded?

[DeepFatFriar]

Close minded as in not receptive to other peoples views.

Disclaimer: i consider myself left wing.

But at the same time, I'm quite happy to have a talk with someone down the pub who might be anti immigration or anti abortion. As long as they've thought their point out properly, im open to debate and i dont feell offended by their views.
But it feels like a lot of the left wing people i come across just go into "racist twat! Fucking tory!" mode- like theyre incapable of seeing that situations are often a bit more complex than just this is right/thats wrong.

For example with Brexit, i voted remain and was gutted by the result - at the same time, i felt a bit irritated by fellow remainers "theyre all little englander tory twats" attitude to brexiters. Yeah, some of them are. Others just have a different POV, you know?

I was discussing this with my mum and she said back in her day (im assuming this means the 70s!) "conversation felt more nuanced".

It sometimes feels like a lot of left wing people just want to live in an echo chamber. I think you need to try and keep an open mind to different points of view. You clearly dont have to agree. But you can at least accept that people have different mindsets because they've had different experiences - it doesnt make them a worse person though.

If you give me any given subject now I can pretty much tell you what the tv panel bar Peru’s Morgan he seems the only person on telly with a view

So what’s the point

I think right wing people have had to work harder to defend their largely unpalletable views for a while and so do generally think things out better. On the other hand, the left has become lazy because it is seen as the 'moral' side of the argument. Recent events, debates and politicians have shown that anyone being facile about left wing politics these days is not picking up a newspaper. I agree atheism and religion is comparable and a greater majority of people with a faith are more prepared to defend their piston though reasoning now.

Pluckedpencil

Their not unpleasant views but now we have the left wing script

People simply say won’t start a Twitter storm but they still hold those view hence why labour are not in power

A lot of people have hit peak trans for example is horse shit but are you allowed to say it in public so you follow the left wing fact sheet on what to say then vote how you really feel

Ha ha, nothing more rigid than a liberal.

If someone is rigid then they are no "liberal". Liberal people are by definition open to new ideas and willing to accept other people's opinion.

I don’t think it’s a left or a right wing problem. It’s more a people can be dicks problem.

^^ This

Yanbu the left is more collectivist and when taken literally that means that we all need to think the same.

We’re meant to be aiming for tolerance. Not agreement, just tolerance. But I find more and more people on the left who think that only flows one way - ie the right need to be tolerant of the left but the left can say whatever offensive thing they like about the right.

I think this comes to a head on some issues where people, particularly on the left, won’t settle for someone respecting their view they want people to respect and agree with and also hold that view too!

You see this particularly with people throwing round ‘centralist dad’ as a slur. If you don’t think precisely what I thing you’re evil and wrong seems to be the message and it’s very off putting.

*respecting their right to hold the view, they want the actual view respected and agreed with too!

that mass harassment case of women in Germany on a square on NYE - remember that? And the perps were primarily refugees? That caused a similar "oh dear, what to think?" effect

How could anyone forget? If it hadn't been so serious, there could actually have been some amusement in watching the extreme left scrabbling helplessly for a stance to take

There are of course bigots on both the extreme right and left ... it's just that it seems a bit ironic when the leftists claim to support inclusivity, tolerance and all the rest

@ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen
The Nazi party may have had the word socialist in the title but they were not left wing. They were the FAR right.

And let’s not forget the rotherm scandals

The right we’re banging on about this for ages the left are shameful when they allow the far right to defend the vunrableand those
Others like the brave MP were shouted down as racists and the liberals did nothing but point the race finger

RayRayBidet

No matter communist regimes have killed more people than any far right one

I am not saying o would want a far right one either

The old adage of the left eating itself rings true.

We are in a situation where the "wooly left" unironically support Obama, Macron when they are further to the right economically and socially than any of the conservatives over the past couple of decades, want us to emulate nordic countries and ignore the fact they have far harsher checks and balances in place as to who can access social welfare and are unironically supporting multinational businesses with regards to EU.

During the last GE, there were polls that highlighted that the people who had the least political awareness to concepts of kicking the can down the road and geopolitik voted labour.

The left are just as tribalistic as the right, the problem is that the right aren't happily gloating atr T-Shirts of "never kissed a tory" etc, us swing voters are they key to an election

I think YANBU, OP, and one only needs look at one's Facebook feed in the run-up to a general election to have this illustrated.

There are many bigots in this world, left right and centre. Bigotry isn't confined to politics either.

@Metoodear
I think the important thing is that extremism in either direction is a bad thing.
And it does matter that it is remembered that the Nazis were right wing.

YANBU. I have a lot of LW friends who I consider to be lovely lovely people and I totally respect their opinions. I am somewhat right wing in my views and I voted for Brexit. I wouldn’t dare admit this to any of my RL friends. After the referendum I noticed lots of people on FB who obviously hold LW views writing angry ranting posts about politics. No other view was acceptable as far as they were concerned and anyone who thought otherwise was either thick or at the very least misguided in their opinions. My mil actually believes that anyone who voted leave in the referendum is racist (she has no idea DH and I did not vote to remain).

RayRayBidet Agreed but we must also not let people forget that comunisum is a danger and has killed wife rage of people
And that for example people in Cuba are effectively prisoner in their own county

Something very scary has been going on with the the left. We were all drawn into scary war with national socialists and the horror of war and Jewish extermination.

But stalin and what happened next is sort of air brushed as weak second act.. When actually more people were murdered... Mao, stalin etc were just as brutal as Hitler and murdered more people and yet generally people know to be wary of far right... But not far left .

Are the labour party putting it in the manifesto?
I think that when people say Left they assume that all people who are on the left have the same views. I consider myself left of centre but I say again I don't consider the current form of the labour party speaks for me.
But I do want a safety net for the vulnerable, good well funded public services and affordable housing. I'm not exactly Lenin.

I’m a left winger too.

Yes, in some cases. I think online discourse has further polarised people. It’s now possible to select exactly the news and current affairs that confirm her opinions. So you just don’t know how to handle being challenged. And the opposing viewpoint gets depersonalised as “other”. People lose the ability to see the humanity and reason in people who arrive at different conclusions.

I don’t think it’s a problem of the left specifically, although perhaps us lefties are more convicted in our views. Lefties tend to be better educated etc, so that may result in our conclusions being (to us) more reasonable than the right wing.

I dunno. There’s a very real chance I’m talking shite

But I do want a safety net for the vulnerable, good well funded public services and affordable housing. I'm not exactly Lenin.
the right want this to hun just want to get rid of the piss takers as they only harm the people who really need to the support lefts view is believe every son story’s rights view is prove you need the help

YABU

Sweeping up a group of people into one bucket and assuming they’re all the same is a bit lazy.

I’ve met plenty of close minded lazy thinking people who are of all political hues.

Not being able to change someone’s political view doesn’t make them close minded. Maybe they’ve thought it through, maybe your argument was pants.

Lefties tend to be better educated etc,
This view the knowing better saving the working class from our selves is the death of the left

I remember a thread from a women had a racist neighbor and couldn’t understand because be had a professional degree

That enlies the problem tbh

@Metoodear
Well, the Tories don't seem to want any of that at the moment. At least that is how it appears to me.

And that’s the left first mistake that middle class educated folk can’t be racist that’s down to Gary the white van man and his NVq level 2