To think a lot of left wing people are actually close minded?

[DeepFatFriar]

Close minded as in not receptive to other peoples views.

Disclaimer: i consider myself left wing.

But at the same time, I'm quite happy to have a talk with someone down the pub who might be anti immigration or anti abortion. As long as they've thought their point out properly, im open to debate and i dont feell offended by their views.
But it feels like a lot of the left wing people i come across just go into "racist twat! Fucking tory!" mode- like theyre incapable of seeing that situations are often a bit more complex than just this is right/thats wrong.

For example with Brexit, i voted remain and was gutted by the result - at the same time, i felt a bit irritated by fellow remainers "theyre all little englander tory twats" attitude to brexiters. Yeah, some of them are. Others just have a different POV, you know?

I was discussing this with my mum and she said back in her day (im assuming this means the 70s!) "conversation felt more nuanced".

It sometimes feels like a lot of left wing people just want to live in an echo chamber. I think you need to try and keep an open mind to different points of view. You clearly dont have to agree. But you can at least accept that people have different mindsets because they've had different experiences - it doesnt make them a worse person though.

YANBU!

I was about to say that tories aren't actually right wing, they just look right wing compared to Labour that are solidly left wing. Britain in general is quite skewed to the left while America is very much skewed to the right.

She actually said, "A lot of left wing people" - she wasn't making a sweeping generalisation.

I have to say the left have been hijacked by trustafrains and non platformers it’s depressing

I know many think momentum are fresh and new if only they knew how closey they mirrored the far right

YANBU at all.

Yanbu. I agree with you entirely.

Love this thread deepfatfriar. Thanks for starting it. I know exactly what you mean but haven’t been articulate enough to express it.

I think people are very quick to shout “racist”, “fascist” “sexist” etc when people are expressing a very moderate view on something they are maybe just confused by. The subject of the LTBG community is an example I find. I would really, really HATE to offend anyone, but sometimes feel genuinely baffled by all the correct terms to use ( I mentioned that I am inarticulate 😂) and this has been a stumbling block in conversation to me. I’m left leaning too but sometimes find it a bit of a competition to come out with the most liberal views.

DeepFatFriar Obama would of made Mrs May look like a die hard momentum follower

The democrats are to the right of the Tory’s and rublicans to the right of the democrats

You wouldn’t find many on the US who would find a Blaireight balanced

Are you mixing up left wing with Corby supporters?
I consider myself left of centre.
I like to think I can listen to others views without shouting anyone down but I don't understand or like what is happening in the Labour Party right now.
They don't speak for me.

What I mean is left wing is a wide spectrum

Yabu to think tory/ right wing = racist. It is about free markets and people providing for themselves not racism.

I think for some left wing thinking people, the stakes are higher....i.e. in politics a lot of damage can be done with right wing ideology. Things like austerity and cutting funding for public services has caused untold misery to the most vulnerable. For some lefties any support along any line that wasn't outright condemnation of this may seem unacceptable.
So perhaps those that have no grey areas or allow no concessions have developed a lack of tolerance because they feel less progressive views can actually do harm.

I sort of get this but I also realise shutting down debates and deciding there's a right and wrong will only push people to dig their heels in further. There are usually multiple aspects to people and often their views don't always align with their personality! Doesn't make them bad people. I think a closed minded left winger would think they are.

University used to be the bastion of ideas and thinking now you may as well print off a fact sheet of correct thinking and hand it out at freshers week

I used to love watching debate shows don’t bother anymore because everyone is so scared of saying anything other than the correct view lest monumtum start a Twitter storm and get people sacked

I'm quite sensitive to this sort of thing. I'm a lefty myself, but my parents were both Tory councillors and I know a lot of people who are all 'Tories are bigots who should be hung', 'All tories are cunts' etc and I know my parents and, y'know, other people who are Tories are great people, not bigots and so forth so it upsets and annoys me when people have this attitude, as for one thing it shuts off political debate because all Tories are supposedly so irredeemably bad that no one should engage with them ever. And the Tory party's policies will never get any better if that's the attitude people take to them.

Yanbu. It’s a consequence of the tribalism and identity politics that’s wreaking havoc in society. It’s not confined to the left, but the left at the moment has been colonised by momentum, transactivists, people who hate women and woke dudebros.

Critical thought, class analysis and the ability to hold a civil conversation with people you don’t agree with is in decline. Universities are no platforming. Academics are being silenced. Trigger warnings are demanded in class.

It’s a total balls up.

People are far too glib about "left" and "right" without even examining what they mean. Take immigration for example- you will be called "right wing" if you are critical of high unregulated immigration, but it's actually the most "right wing" thing in the world to cheerlead downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on rents and house prices. Even Keir Hardie, father of the Labour party, was very hostile to Lithuanian migrant workers in Scotland a century ago, because he believed they were a threat to the pay and conditions of the native workers. I wish people would actually read a book once in a while or Wikipedia or something..

Of course you can be left wing but close minded or fairly right wing and liberal. The two are not necessarily related.

Ha ha, nothing more rigid than a liberal.

foxpox Thing is if you

If your working class the progressive views on immigration and such have done us harm and real lasting damage

And I am afraid this arrogant view only the left can save the working classes from themselves has to stop

Wrote a thread the other day about how sinsister a soft coup was and that the will of the people must be done i basically got told if the people don’t vote the right way then their vote is voild and that the only exeeptable form of government that won’t require a re vote is a left one

I think yanbu. I’m a lifelong Labour voter and come from a long line of socialists and lefties, but I agree that there is more diversity of opinion among people on the right imo.

That said, I’m always interested to hear what more right wing people have to say, unless it is poorly thought out or downright bigoted. I lived with a few Tory party members while at university and I had some great chats with them about their views on politics etc, (I studied politics). I was also best friends with a girl and then found out she was the granddaughter of a prominent Tory peer. I had no idea until I went to her house over the holidays.

I notice this and sometimes wonder if it's because the left often has the "nicer" and "kinder" ideology that is maybe what a lot of people across the spectrum would be happy to support if it didn't impact them personally through higher taxation etc.

I think that there's sometimes a bit of a misconception from the left that the right just have no compassion or empathy for causes usually adopted by the left. I actually often find the opposite and that a lot of Tory voters do care about the same things, but they either don't agree with the solution suggested by the left or they believe the cost of implementing such a solution would come at too great a cost for themselves, their family or society at large.

I always find it interesting when studies show that the older and wealthier we get the more right wing we tend to become. I think a lot of us struggle to put our money where our mouth is when it really comes to it.

Most people I know are not against immigration

It’s not about the who it’s about the how many and the skills

Most people have no issue with freedom of movement it’s the freedom to claim that is the issue

But the left are to busy shouting racists to hear what’s being said

And the issue is if often trustafrain types who should the loudest and when their are no homes their parents can get them one
And when their are no GPS they can afford to go private and when their are no school places they can send their sons to dulwich collage

So true! I was very happily left wing when I had a mixed group of friends and colleagues, but now I work in the arts and it drives me mad that there is an accepted opinion on so many things, which cannot be questioned. It really makes me want to question everything. I find a lot of the talk quite disingenuous because most people in the arts are pretty privileged and have done well from many of the systems they claim to despise.
The claim to be leading the way in diversity particularly enrages me as the arts are so much less diverse than many less vocal industries that don't make a big song and dance about how forward thinking they are.

YANBU. The problem with left wingers is they're usually holier than thou and hypocrites to boot, so they think their way is automatically the best way and anyone who disagrees with them must be stupid/racists/etc.

Don't forget most totalitarian regimes in history have been left wing. Even the Nazis (also known as the National Socialist German Workers' Party).

China, Venezuela, USSR - all totalitarian regimes that started with communism.

All about telling the working classes from poor areas how awesome immigration is for them while sloping off themselves to some home county with 0 immigration