In Connecticut, two teenage boys who identify as girls have come 1st and 2nd in the girls' 100m sprint

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/GameTimeCT/status/1003739370736816129

Reposted from Feminism Chat as more people need to see this.

Neither Miller nor Yearwood have got times that would be remotely remarkable for boys (200th and 443rd respectively) but they are smashing the girls' records out of the park as now they identify as girls, they're allowed to race them instead.

Watch the face of the girl who comes third. That's pretty much her best ever 100m race. But she didn't win.

Self identification means this kind of thing will keep on happening. If you value women's sport and think that women and girls deserve to compete on a level playing field, please sign the petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

popchyk said
We seem to have a situation where girls who identify as boys are completely excluded from elite boys' sport. And always will be. And none of the TRAs have a word to say about it
Boys inclusion in girls' elite sport though? Girls must give up their places immediately

I was going to post along these lines but was beaten to it.

Why aren't TRAs up in arms about transboys not being able to compete?
Oh hang on is it because TRAs are MRAs after all?

Yes of course because women are 2D sterotypes that perform femininity constantly, even when there's no-one to see. I don't know about you but i always put my tights on as if I'm doing ballet while staring admiringly at my own leg, and shower as if I'm in a slightly saucy 80s film.

There is literally nothing else to us.

Ohpeilia which situation is that? The one with the wrestler?

In general I dont' think anyone cares about transboys as they are never going to beat the boys (except maybe the ocasional exceptional one in certain sports).

Right from school it is accepted that girls can read any books, but boys "need" ones where the central characters are boys. It's really interesting. There was an article recently about how telling boys through pretty much all media that they are the central lead in their own story - a hero who will "get the girl" (if that's the way they are inclined) - is resulting in a rise in untrammelled misogyny & violence when society doesn't give them what they have been promised they can have.

I find this very interesting and I recognise it. I woulds love to hear more Sardine if you have any articles etc. I'm trying to recall if I did that with my sons but I think I just read them stories I enjoyed as a child and some of them had female leads. Certainly it has't dissuaded my eldest from reading books like The Uglies, The Hunger Games and Who Runs the World which are all centred around a female lead. That said I can absolutely see how people assume girls can read anything and boys must have books geared towards them. In my job I actually do this but it is more with an eye to encouraging reluctant readers - this tends to be less about sex of protagonist and more about their interests - certain sports, video games etc.

I've already voiced my opinion on the OP in FWR and it is one of overwhelming sadness for the girls involved. I also consider Bridget the winner of that race. I think it is grossly unfair and somewhat unsurprising that once again the feelings of the women involved are overlooked in favour of pandering to men. I am sad and I am angry for those girls who cannot say a goddamn thing about this or they will be vilified not only by those around them but by the media too. It is an unacceptable situation and I know how frustrated they must be because I burn with frustration on their behalf and there is absolutely NOTHING any TRA, MRA or Allie can say which will justify this in my eyes.

Or is that ok because they are just boys?

Sardines has given a good answer to that user, and yes of course boys are equally entitled to privacy when undressed. I don’t think you will find anyone arguing with that.

User147: Well if the boys don't want girls in their spaces why can't they complain about it?

Just thinking about a comment up thread. You're right, men transitioning are transmen, women transitioning are transwomen. Who decided it was the other way round? The phrase 'transwomen are women' only has any sort of gravitas because of repeating 'women'. 'Transmen are women' wouldn't have got the parroting that we seem to hear regularly,

I don't know about you but i always put my tights on as if I'm doing ballet while staring admiringly at my own leg, and shower as if I'm in a slightly saucy 80s film

hoo-ah

It's the issue that makes my blood boil. It is so unfair.
I'm sure I read somewhere about a transman professional basketball player retiring because they needed to transition and obviously that meant they couldn't play in the female team, but of course they wouldn't qualify for the men's team. I think this illustrates how important the need to transition is for some people but unfortunately we often need to make choices in life. Perhaps as women we are more conditioned to accept that we sometimes need to make choices in our life and we can't have everything we want.

Just an anecdote, watching the athletics from Oslo, there’s been an era in the women’s steeplechase and the first barrier has been set at the men’s height rather than the women’s height.

The difficulty in elite athletes getting over the higher barrier was obvious.

If ever the difference between male and female biology in action.

Perhaps as women we are more conditioned to accept that we sometimes need to make choices in our life and we can't have everything we want.

Indeed.

For example, female athletes know the impact prrgnancy could have on them physically, and so they postpone having children until they've retired or accomplished their sporting ambitions.

Meanwhile, some male athletes feel entitled to transition and participate in competitive sports at the same time...

What a surprise!

In past days I would sign this petition and I do feel trrrbles for the girls involved however being in MN has shown me that some people use the mask of caring about sport to express their transphobia and I won’t be linked to that.

I posted on another thread about my nephew (FTM transgender) that now competes as part of an all-male a Capella singing group. No doubt as his voice is higher it can be used to give them an advantage but no-one has complained about that.

No doubt as his voice is higher it can be used to give them an advantage but no-one has complained about that

I don’t think it’s quite the same.

In a singing competition, there’s various factors at play - how well you harmonise, hit the notes, choice of music, rhythm. A slightly higher range isn’t immediately conferring a huge advantage.

Sport you’re often testing ONE attribute. So who runs faster, who jumps higher.

It would be a direct comparison if your nephew was participating in a high note contest.

Sorry I don’t agree. They are marked on harmonies, it’s far easier to harmonise which different pitches.

They aren’t marked solely on harmonies though is my point.

And nor would I have an issue with a transwomen being in a female group because they’re not immediately gaining an unfair advantage.

Times have changed. Sports needs to start using height/weight categories instead. Men have varying levels of testosterone so why make women test for it and medically lower it before they can ve seen to be competing equally (like Caster Semenya) but not men? That's sexist. Yes, it's complicated, but parasports seem to manage fine with creating physical attribute categories

Or - and bear with me because this is pretty radical - we could have men's sport - for men - and women's sport - for women.

Sorry. Didn't mean to get all technical there...

Pic : From AllSORTS, who give guidance to schools in UK. Have they visited your child's school yet?

Basically, if you or your kid doesn't like the changes, tough. STFU

My DSD is very glad her DC are at a Catholic school where they've made it clear they have no time for this nonsense.

My DSD is very glad her DC are at a Catholic school where they've made it clear they have no time for this nonsense

Oh the irony.

The comparison with music is BS. When I was in a school choir (audition required) in a mixed school in the first two years of secondary school - more than fifty years ago - boys with unbroken voices sang the alto/soprano lines and nobody thought anything of it, although in theory I suppose it might have kept a girl out.

Sports needs to start using height/weight categories instead

At school boys and girls should be divided up first by anatomical gender, and then by height and weight - especially boys in contact sport - instead of by ability.

I'm beginning to think now that this nonsense will come to an end.
It's been sneaked in quietly without too much public awareness, but whenever I mention it to someone who doesn't know they actually tend to disbelieve it because it sounds quite ridiculous.
Sooner or later the number of people who know and understand the implications of this self ID business will reach a critical mass, and will insist on returning to reality.

some people use the mask of caring about sport to express their transphobia and I won’t be linked to that
Not on mumsnet.
If the other groups wanted to complain about your relative then fine, I support investigating whether it gives an unfair advantage. If they aren't complaining then it is because there is no unfair advantage.

Andrewofogg it’s university level so
no unbroken male voices are available.